WSAS: Milestone Three

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thespaceinvader
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WSAS: Milestone Three

Post by thespaceinvader » June 27th, 2009, 4:18 pm

After only a few hours, I've got the first thing coming out for your viewing pleasure: lines for the Clasher, based on Girgistan's sketch.

This is going to be an interesting one. A lot of the detailing and decoration will be added at the painting stage, notably some flame detailing on the shoulder armour, and more importantly, the scales on his arms and face.

The blades on the gauntlet (another slight change I intend to make throughout the drakes is to have the blades mounted to the back of the hand rather than the vambrace, to allow greater flexibility and less chance of chopping up the backs of the user's own hands.) and on the spear also need a lot of refinement.

I'm going to keep the heraldry and sigils of the drakes largely flame- and volcano-based, possibly with the occasional bit of sun-based imagery too. The armour is intended to have a lot of built-in flexibility, hence the layered look. Except in the wings, which on the Clasher line are basically useless, and therefore bound in armour to avoid damage to their delicate membranes. I've also decided to give them cross-shaped pupils, simply for the unusualness of them.
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Re: WSAS: Making a start

Post by Turuk » June 27th, 2009, 4:21 pm

Congrats on the WSAS, and your initial lines look great. I look forward to following this thread all summer, and watch the drakes get the TLC they need.

Will you be using the same scale pattern on these that was experimented with previously on other portraits?
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Re: WSAS: Making a start

Post by thespaceinvader » June 27th, 2009, 4:23 pm

You mean from the saurians? Maybe a little around the head and mouth, but in general, bigger, more crocodile/dragon-like scales. Taking a lot of inspiration from this wonderful dragon artist: http://ironshod.deviantart.com
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Re: WSAS: Making a start

Post by Turuk » June 27th, 2009, 4:26 pm

Yes, well, like them or like this one here, but you answered my question anyways, so good to know. :)
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Re: WSAS: Making a start

Post by Jetrel » June 29th, 2009, 4:38 am

Overall, this is looking pretty good.

:eng: Thoughts:

1] I trust you'll be passing over this lineart and giving it some variable-width lines. Right now these all look like the exact same 1px brush. I understand this is WIP, so you might not have gotten to that yet.

2] I would probably tilt his head slightly (very slightly; we're talking some 5-10°). Right now, having it dead-level with the camera is a little blah.

3] Those lines delineating the plate edges on the top of his tail might need to curve the other direction, depending on how far (angularly) his tail is pointing back. Try it and post it. I'm not sure, myself, and foreshortening armor like that is always a PITA.

4] Last but not least, as a matter of mere opinion, I'm fond of the face looking smug, but I'm not so keen on how the muzzle's construction looks a bit bovine. It's mostly the shape of the jowls (or presence thereof entirely) that does it; also for the drakes, a somewhat crocodillian business of protruding teeth could work nicely.
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Re: WSAS: Making a start

Post by kitty » June 29th, 2009, 7:54 am

Good to see these guys finally getting taken care of! :)

In addition to what Jetryl already mentioned:

- If his tail is set in the middle of his lower back it should sit between the wings, the one closer to the viewer should overlap it.
- The position of his right lower arm and hand are unnaturally straight, bend the hand a tad.
- His rear arm needs work: the bulge of the upper arm's muscle is too big (in relation to the rest of his figure), he needs an ellbow and the hand is too small (in relation to the other one), his thumb is tiny and the fingers don't wrap around the spear properly.
- And I don't understand his legs: is he kneeling?

- Another way of getting rid of the bovine impression, Jet already criticized, is working on the shape of the nostrils, they appear very soft right now. If you look through the dragon gallery you linked to, you can see a lot ideas for more dragon-like nose constructions.

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Re: WSAS: Making a start

Post by thespaceinvader » June 30th, 2009, 1:59 pm

I probably won't be able to do much today - moving house. I hate moving.

But anyway. Jet: Yes, I will be working the lines over once I've done a bit on the shading. That's the pattern my work tends to take.

Tilt it down, or sideways?

I had this thought about the tail plates, actually - they probably ought to all curve in the opposite direction, so they curve away from the tail - otherwise he wouldn't be able to lift it at all. Admittdely, though, the tail was something of an afterthought.

I didn't do the sketch, girgistan did. But I think the face (based on my own research) was probably based on a komodo dragon (which, incidentally, is where I got the nostril design from). I'll see about making it a bit more toothsome and regular - the skin of the face needs refining anyway, to introduce the scaling pattern.

Kitty: Noted about the tail. I think I'll probably change it so the wings finish above the tail, to remove any confusion.

Noted about the arms and hands, I'll fix when I get the chance to revise. But looking at real-world reference I'm loath to define the joints and muscles too much - the scales should prevent that to a large extent.

He has digitigrade feet, rather like the saurians, only bulkier and heavier, with less of an animalistic upper body position.

But yeah, plenty of revisions to come. Jet, I need to have a word with you about the Clasher animations, too.

EDIT: revised lines, preliminary colours, lighting directions, suggested final crop.
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Re: WSAS: Making a start

Post by Turuk » June 30th, 2009, 2:12 pm

Nice, I'm interested to seeing how the shading will turn out.

My only thought is towards the blades on the back of his left hand, as it seems as if they are seen in profile but I would imagine with the position of his hand that we would be seeing them from the bottom, so slimmer. Are you going to put blades on his right hand as well? Not only does it seem as if claws would probably be used in symmetry, but there is also an imbalance given that all his weapons are in that hand.
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Re: WSAS: Making a start

Post by thespaceinvader » June 30th, 2009, 2:14 pm

Nope, as with the sprite, the claws are only on the one hand - the spear would normally be carried and used primarily with the other hand (which, now that I think about it, shouldn't have armour on the back) but having it that way in the portrait would have messed up the composition...
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Re: WSAS: Making a start

Post by Turuk » June 30th, 2009, 2:21 pm

Yeah, I understand why you did it, but I guess the sprite makes little logical sense then. You would need two hands to wield the spear, and so the claw(s) would have to be a weapon for when the spear was stuck in an enemy or unable to be used for space, which means that just have on hand with claws on it to attack while the other hand.... waves? Bah!

Sorry, I employed logic. :P
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Re: WSAS: Making a start

Post by thespaceinvader » June 30th, 2009, 2:23 pm

The other hand holds onto the spear so you don't lose it, natch ;)
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Re: WSAS: Making a start

Post by Turuk » June 30th, 2009, 2:26 pm

thespaceinvader wrote:The other hand holds onto the spear so you don't lose it, natch
Right, but when battle is too close to use a spear or you lose it? And if the hand with the claws on it does nothing but hold the spear then, why the claws? It would need claws on both hands for melee after the spear.... Ahhhhh logic! :P

Okay, I'll leave it alone. ;)


Is the grey on his armor going to be chainmail, or just a design?
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Re: WSAS: Making a start

Post by thespaceinvader » June 30th, 2009, 2:37 pm

Chain mail for the portions around his head and midriff, detailing for the rest.
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Re: WSAS: Making a start

Post by kitty » July 1st, 2009, 9:33 pm

Hmm, the new face is a lot better! Much more dragon-like! :)
  • There are still some things problematic with both of his hands: his right one is still unnaturally straight (as I explained in my last post) and the other one is generally too small, its thumb is tiny and the fingers don't wrap around the spear properly (as I already said as well). And Turuk is right, there is some perspective issue with the claws.
  • I'm still not convinced by his legs, even if they are digitigrade they need to be positioned in a way that supports his center of gravity.
  • And while the re-draw of the wings cleared up their relationship with the tail, they now form a unfortunate tangent with it - wether overlap them or put them distinctly apart!
When you have solved those issues I really look forward to seeing your rendering of scales!

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Re: WSAS: Making a start

Post by Jetrel » July 2nd, 2009, 3:35 am

kitty wrote:Hmm, the new face is a lot better! Much more dragon-like! :)
Agreed. :)
kitty wrote:
  • And while the re-draw of the wings cleared up their relationship with the tail, they now form a unfortunate tangent with it - wether overlap them or put them distinctly apart!
BTW, thanks for bringing this up as critique point you've leveled at a few recent drawings by various people. It's something I was only starting to realize and formulate in my head, and having it explicitly stated is a nice jump start on not having to learn it the hard way.
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