B.U.R.S. (Bizarre and Unusual Recruit Styles)

Discussion of all aspects of multiplayer development: unit balancing, map development, server development, and so forth.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

Post Reply
donkey_noob_trash1
Posts: 147
Joined: March 1st, 2009, 6:16 am

B.U.R.S. (Bizarre and Unusual Recruit Styles)

Post by donkey_noob_trash1 » June 10th, 2009, 6:20 pm

Hello everyone. Recently I've decided to put standard recruitment and playing on the back burner, and start working on unusual playing/ recruitment styles... and I'd like some help.

Ideally, I'd like to be able to random into a faction that has a pre-determined bizarre recruitment scheme. WOSOR (a recruit of all Wose) and HODOR (all outlaws) are examples of BURS. Which brings me to my request:

I'd like help in putting together BURS for each faction. The #1 requirement is that the strategy be completely unusual/ bizarre. All maps are open. It is preferred that the unit spamming be kept under 3 units. One or two unit spams are preferred. If you must use 3, it has to be REALLY weird. Like, only scouts, shammies, and mermen hunters. Also, it is preferred that the style be somewhat effective.

Here are some ideas I've been toying with for Isar's:

For Knalgans: only fighters and guardsmen

For UD: only adepts and WCs

For Loyals: only HI

For Drakes: Only burners and augurs

For Rebels: WOSOR or Mages/archers

For Northerners: only nagas, assassins, and archers

Those are strictly theoretical. The main purpose for this exercise is to: 1) shock/ amuse your opponent, 2) give you a slight handicap, 3) force you to be extra thoughtful and creative in your engagements. Since Isar's usually does not bring in the best players, it's perfectly appropriate I think. Winning normally gets old after a while, I think. Anyways, I am planning to post my replays on this. If you come up with any brilliant ideas, MAKE SURE TO INCLUDE YOUR REPLAY!!! :D
"Oh noes, I'm trapped by corporeal beings!" -Caphriel (in a discussion about ghosts and ZoC)

multilis
Posts: 69
Joined: November 27th, 2006, 12:36 am

Re: B.U.R.S. (Bizarre and Unusual Recruit Styles)

Post by multilis » June 13th, 2009, 5:53 am

UD - only adepts and wc... I have nearly fought like this at times, worked better in past when corpses were 1 gold cheaper. Works best in a defensive game. Very funny when winning with horde of corpses overwhelming/converting enemy.

Ghouls and wc might work

Adepts+ghosts... have seen work on large enough map as hit and run.


Drakes - pure fighter spam may also work (hit and run).

Loyalists - pure cavalry and horsemen *might* work at times if map was large enough (hit and run)
Pure fencers or add fencers to the horses may also be viable (village stealing hit and run)

Pure HI seems doomed to me no matter what the map.

donkey_noob_trash1
Posts: 147
Joined: March 1st, 2009, 6:16 am

Re: B.U.R.S. (Bizarre and Unusual Recruit Styles)

Post by donkey_noob_trash1 » June 13th, 2009, 9:25 pm

I like the sound of the horsemen and cavalry... might bust it out in a non-ladder 1 on 1. Thanks! :)
"Oh noes, I'm trapped by corporeal beings!" -Caphriel (in a discussion about ghosts and ZoC)

Caphriel
Posts: 994
Joined: April 21st, 2008, 4:10 pm

Re: B.U.R.S. (Bizarre and Unusual Recruit Styles)

Post by Caphriel » June 13th, 2009, 9:28 pm

And hope you're not against a clasher-heavy drake player? :lol2:

donkey_noob_trash1
Posts: 147
Joined: March 1st, 2009, 6:16 am

Re: B.U.R.S. (Bizarre and Unusual Recruit Styles)

Post by donkey_noob_trash1 » June 14th, 2009, 6:29 am

Ok... so... I tried the 100% horsey recruit on a Clash game where everyone (except my ally, GeneralZomberd) chose their faction. I mostly recruited cavalry, with a couple horsemen thrown in. Didn't work so well early on, when I was on the offensive. However, a lot of that had to deal with some pretty crappy luck. As the game progressed, though, GeneralZomberd and I were able to make a lot of headway against the other players. We ended up losing the game, but not because of they horseman recruit. I was just really stupid with my leader. Oh well.

I didn't save the replay, unfortunately. I'm going to start saving them, and I'll post them in here. Mostly for entertainment value.
"Oh noes, I'm trapped by corporeal beings!" -Caphriel (in a discussion about ghosts and ZoC)

Caphriel
Posts: 994
Joined: April 21st, 2008, 4:10 pm

Re: B.U.R.S. (Bizarre and Unusual Recruit Styles)

Post by Caphriel » June 14th, 2009, 12:10 pm

I've gotten abysmal luck both times I tried it (I hit two out of 20-30 attacks against mostly 40% dodge the first game, and a bit better the second.) Maybe the RGN gods hate us for trying? :lol2: I think it's fairly viable, though. Not as good as HODOR, though, and not on every map. Playing it feels a little like playing the drakes, though. You've got high MP and a weakness to pierce :lol2:

donkey_noob_trash1
Posts: 147
Joined: March 1st, 2009, 6:16 am

Re: B.U.R.S. (Bizarre and Unusual Recruit Styles)

Post by donkey_noob_trash1 » June 14th, 2009, 7:39 pm

Caph- maybe the RNG gods just hate *US* in general. I had 4 back to back horrific luck games the other day. Bleh :annoyed: Ummm... anyways... I have a replay! This strategy I call the "no grunt" strategy. It may be a B.U.R.S. because grunts are pretty much the backbone of the orc army. Also, I didn't recruit any trolls either. So the main melee units I was using were the warg riders and gobbos. I had some luck with the traits that my wargs had... several strong/ resilient ones. Also, I dare say my enemy's recruit was not very good. If he had built more clashers and augurs I would have been struggling, I think.

Anyways... here it is...
no_grunts.gz
(12.44 KiB) Downloaded 435 times
What do you guys think? B.U.R.S or no?
"Oh noes, I'm trapped by corporeal beings!" -Caphriel (in a discussion about ghosts and ZoC)

User avatar
grzywacz
Inactive Developer
Posts: 303
Joined: January 29th, 2005, 9:03 pm
Location: Krakow, Poland
Contact:

Re: B.U.R.S. (Bizarre and Unusual Recruit Styles)

Post by grzywacz » June 14th, 2009, 9:38 pm

Woses-only can ba scary if executed properly. :twisted:

User avatar
Skrim
Posts: 312
Joined: June 10th, 2009, 7:19 am

Re: B.U.R.S. (Bizarre and Unusual Recruit Styles)

Post by Skrim » June 17th, 2009, 12:50 pm

A BURS for the Northies would be:

- Goblin Army: Only Goblin Spearmen and Wolf Riders. A casual version would allow for half-orcs like Archers and Assassins too. No full-orcs(Grunts) or non-orcs(Trolls, Nagas) are allowed.


For the Loyalists:

- No Armor: Only Fencers and Magi.


For the Undead:

- No Undead: Only Adepts and Bats. No actual undead units allowed.


For the Drakes:

- Saurian Army: Self-explanatory. No Drakes allowed.

- Flyers Only: Self-explanatory also. Only flying Drakes, i.e, Gliders, Fighters, Burners.



I don't actually plan to use any of these any time soon, just putting up ideas.

Bolisimo_VonSwaygo
Posts: 3
Joined: May 15th, 2009, 3:44 pm

Re: B.U.R.S. (Bizarre and Unusual Recruit Styles)

Post by Bolisimo_VonSwaygo » June 17th, 2009, 8:44 pm

grzywacz wrote:Woses-only can ba scary if executed properly. :twisted:

Couldn't you then recruit a few horses and steal his villages then wear down his woses and since he has no villages he can't heal or recruit backups?

I'm still kind of new so maybe that wouldn't work.

Boucman
Inactive Developer
Posts: 2119
Joined: March 31st, 2004, 1:04 pm

Re: B.U.R.S. (Bizarre and Unusual Recruit Styles)

Post by Boucman » June 17th, 2009, 9:02 pm

wose regenerates, so healing is not a problem...

the problem with wose only strategy (and most BURS idea so far ) is that, unlike HODOR, there is a "perfect counter-strategy" for the oponent.

in other word, with HODOR, you are at a disadvantage, but you still get a "complete" faction that can face more or less all other factions

with most BURS, if your oponent realize what's going on, you can't win
Fight key loggers: write some perl using vim

tsr
Posts: 790
Joined: May 24th, 2006, 1:05 pm

Re: B.U.R.S. (Bizarre and Unusual Recruit Styles)

Post by tsr » June 17th, 2009, 9:28 pm

Well, if we are going to find workable and 'easily' definable sub-parts of the default factions I propose the 'purelves': that would be the Rebel faction only recruiting strictly elven units (yes, strictly means no horses either). Since you got pierce, impact and slow I think you could work most situations even vs an almost 'equally' good player.

/tsr

Caphriel
Posts: 994
Joined: April 21st, 2008, 4:10 pm

Re: B.U.R.S. (Bizarre and Unusual Recruit Styles)

Post by Caphriel » June 18th, 2009, 1:22 am

I've tried no-mage no-wose elves before. Taking out the scout would hurt a bit on some maps, but on others, I probably wouldn't notice it.

donkey_noob_trash1
Posts: 147
Joined: March 1st, 2009, 6:16 am

Re: B.U.R.S. (Bizarre and Unusual Recruit Styles)

Post by donkey_noob_trash1 » June 18th, 2009, 5:34 pm

Skrim wrote:A BURS for the Northies would be:

- Goblin Army: Only Goblin Spearmen and Wolf Riders. A casual version would allow for half-orcs like Archers and Assassins too. No full-orcs(Grunts) or non-orcs(Trolls, Nagas) are allowed.


For the Loyalists:

- No Armor: Only Fencers and Magi.


For the Undead:

- No Undead: Only Adepts and Bats. No actual undead units allowed.


For the Drakes:

- Saurian Army: Self-explanatory. No Drakes allowed.

- Flyers Only: Self-explanatory also. Only flying Drakes, i.e, Gliders, Fighters, Burners.



I don't actually plan to use any of these any time soon, just putting up ideas.
I like some of these ideas, and may try out the UD strategy you proposed. Another idea I'm toying with is a skeleton/ ghost only spam. I think that could be very effective, especially if you random into UD. Most melee and even a lot of ranged units don't have impact. If you're up against mages, you just chop them to pieces with axemen. Gotta make sure you're attacking at night, of course. Anyways... replays to come. I am working on the blitzkrieg project currently, but I think I can slip in a BURS game here and there.
"Oh noes, I'm trapped by corporeal beings!" -Caphriel (in a discussion about ghosts and ZoC)

User avatar
Rigor
Posts: 941
Joined: September 27th, 2007, 1:40 am

Re: B.U.R.S. (Bizarre and Unusual Recruit Styles)

Post by Rigor » June 20th, 2009, 12:49 am

Found it especially refreshing to go UD melee on isars cross:

used units: 2WC,3Skel,2Ghoul

start rec. was 2skel/2ghoul then 1 WC /1 skel, last recruit 1 more WC and action!

killed every foolish mage who got on interesting terrain and Tesafilmchen blocked the hell out of the other player.

savegame attached, have fun

conclusions: loya somehow expected me to build adepts which were nonexistent this game so his spears and horseman didnt stand a chance.
Attachments
4S_–_Isars_Kreuz_Spielverlauf.gz
UD going melee
(24.19 KiB) Downloaded 474 times

Post Reply