Wesband, MP dungeon-crawler (now for Wesnoth 1.9.14+ !)

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Golbeeze
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Re: Wesband (Now with relevant info in the first post)

Post by Golbeeze »

@Qes:

I don't like the idea of all the races/classes being able to access any ability. That goes against everything you explained....If you DON'T want the character to be a jack-of-all-trades, then each character should be limited to what they have access to. I like the setup as it is. The player chooses what race they want- which has classes to choose from- that determine what kinds of abilities/skills they will have- which determines how they will play. If anyone can choose anything, the replayability is greatly reduced.

As it stands now, each race has some uniqueness in the manner you go about leveling up. I've probably played every available class right now, and I've made some pretty different setups. If there were more classes (Troll, I'm looking at you) and an Orc tree I think it would be greatly improved. Of course, more skills/abilities could be added to each class which would be great, too. First, we have to come up with ideas though.

(edited to make it an easier read)
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Re: Wesband (Now with relevant info in the first post)

Post by Ken_Oh »

Fanghorn wrote:Troll or not, armor sucks in my oppinion never came to use one because the early armor has too many cons and most armors lower the evade rate a lot. Tanks just dont have enough HP to stand a horde of monsters.
You're right about this. One main issue is how if you add damage to a saber, it results in a gain of 6 (2*3) because saber has 3 strikes, but adding damage to an axe with 1 strike just gives you 2. High-strike characters always come out on top. I tried to counter-balance that by giving light weapons much less initial damage but that isn't enough. Anyway, I'm drafting a new way of doing things.

About female sprites, make them and I'll use them. I was planning female elf first because that would actually make a difference in abilities. Maybe I could work on female sprites using battle princess as a base.
Qes wrote:Now, the tree would always be connected to everything else. So a rogue could turn into a wizard. A wizard could turn into an axe-wielding behemoth - if it picks that path. All the tree would branch OUTWARD, making specialization much different than being a jack of all trades.
Eh, this is already kind of like this, except there are restrictions. For anyone listening: THERE ARE NO CLASSES!! I used to have the era let you customize your character from the start by just letting you choose a race (if human also alignment), buy starting equipment and skills. Dov suggested that it would be less confusing to let players choose a template and I agreed.

Think of it like this: Every character has the potential to be anything, but when you choose a race, it restricts those choices (i.e. a Troll can't use Human magic). When you choose a template, it further restricts things, mostly by alignment but changing alignment is only for humans (lawful units can't get marksman, only chaotic units can backstab, only neutral units can get loner but not if being neutral came from studying magic, etc.). Then, of course, paths open and close based on advancements. Think of the difference between a Drake Burner and a Drake Glider. It wouldn't make sense to let a player pick massive damage and marksman, when Drakes become available, not to mention how overpowered that would be.

So, yeah, a wizard can totally use an axe and a rogue can totally use (dark) magic (barring the bug that makes that advancement not work...). The restrictions come here with special effects. Many of these (backstab, magic casting bonus from staffs, firststrike, dash, etc.) only work if in the first melee slot, so you can't do everything at once.

The goal is to have it make sense and to reflect mainline units and expand upon them. Here's an earlier draft of things: http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dfx4vf3d_27ccx6c9f4

I'm cool with many things you said (was hoping to do in-dungeon villages at some point, and creeps do presently fight each other), but I don't see what race specific armor/weapons would do for the game. Dov thought this too and actually persuaded me to not make race specific armor in the first place.

Orcish Shyde: :| I was hoping that all my worries would be over with 1.5.11 having the menu fixed. I'll look at it tomorrow.

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Re: Wesband (Now with relevant info in the first post)

Post by Qes »

Golbeeze wrote:@Qes:

I don't like the idea of all the races/classes being able to access any ability. That goes against everything you explained....If you DON'T want the character to be a jack-of-all-trades, then each character should be limited to what they have access to. I like the setup as it is. The player chooses what race they want- which has classes to choose from- that determine what kinds of abilities/skills they will have- which determines how they will play. If anyone can choose anything, the replayability is greatly reduced.

As it stands now, each race has some uniqueness in the manner you go about leveling up. I've probably played every available class right now, and I've made some pretty different setups. If there were more classes (Troll, I'm looking at you) and an Orc tree I think it would be greatly improved. Of course, more skills/abilities could be added to each class which would be great, too. First, we have to come up with ideas though.

(edited to make it an easier read)

I was imagining a "single tree" as being a development simplicity. And then each class would just have pre-loaded skills somewhere on that tree.

The thing is, if you wanted to do a jack of all trades - you'd sacrifice specialization which would lead to those neat toys I was describing. I personally like extreme speicialization, and finding new ways to utilize it.

As it is, I think the weapon-skills need... adjusting. those +strike skills are so powerful, and the +power skills are more powerful at the beginning and weaker later. Also they seem to emulate exactly what "body, deft and mind" do already.

I'd recomend making the weapons specializations reachable later in levels rather than right off the bat. Perhaps some classes could start with it (warrior,soldier, martialwhatnot). So they could play with weapons, where as other classes wouldnt really specialize in a weapon but rather their own physical abilities.

Also, I like the idea of more abilities associate with weapon types. Which could lead to more types of weapons. I think playing with capturing enemies, increase in HP per hit/kill, more "counter-attack" abilities that could be triggered on the defensive, or more abilities on strictly the offensive, etc.

I like the idea of people being able to be A sneaky rogue, or a dashing ranger, or a powerful wizard, or a berzerk barbarian, or a stalwart soldier, etc, etc. And I love the idea that in this version these are all possible.

On that note: Perhaps adding more than just "mobs" is possible. I like the idea of traps.

Traps could come in all shapes and sizes. Some traps could be magical and have areas of effect, with long lasting slow, poison, or debuffs (perhaps temporary armor reduction, or evasion reduction). Perhaps some traps destroy items.

And some of course just do raw damage. These could be 0 movement mobiles with a special range of "trap" - in this, Rogue like charaters could "Disarm trap" which would be a "trap" range attack that would kill the trap. Traps might only have 1 hp, and be invisible, so things "run into them" - pathing would be an issue with this. Perhaps they could be stealthed unless a specific vision held by rogue-like characters was obtained.

Another good thing would be treasure chests - when walked over, an item would be gained. Perhaps it'd be a terrain script (treasure chest) rather than a mob - becuase this would allow "trap" mobs to be placed over it.

And generally more consumables would be great. :)

These ideas were scatterbrained, but I R TIRED. So meh.

I hope i'm helping and not hurting.
-Qes
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Re: Wesband (Now with relevant info in the first post)

Post by Qes »

Ken_Oh wrote:
Fanghorn wrote:Troll or not, armor sucks in my oppinion never came to use one because the early armor has too many cons and most armors lower the evade rate a lot. Tanks just dont have enough HP to stand a horde of monsters.
You're right about this. One main issue is how if you add damage to a saber, it results in a gain of 6 (2*3) because saber has 3 strikes, but adding damage to an axe with 1 strike just gives you 2. High-strike characters always come out on top. I tried to counter-balance that by giving light weapons much less initial damage but that isn't enough. Anyway, I'm drafting a new way of doing things.

About female sprites, make them and I'll use them. I was planning female elf first because that would actually make a difference in abilities. Maybe I could work on female sprites using battle princess as a base.
Qes wrote:Now, the tree would always be connected to everything else. So a rogue could turn into a wizard. A wizard could turn into an axe-wielding behemoth - if it picks that path. All the tree would branch OUTWARD, making specialization much different than being a jack of all trades.
Eh, this is already kind of like this, except there are restrictions. For anyone listening: THERE ARE NO CLASSES!! I used to have the era let you customize your character from the start by just letting you choose a race (if human also alignment), buy starting equipment and skills. Dov suggested that it would be less confusing to let players choose a template and I agreed.

Think of it like this: Every character has the potential to be anything, but when you choose a race, it restricts those choices (i.e. a Troll can't use Human magic). When you choose a template, it further restricts things, mostly by alignment but changing alignment is only for humans (lawful units can't get marksman, only chaotic units can backstab, only neutral units can get loner but not if being neutral came from studying magic, etc.). Then, of course, paths open and close based on advancements. Think of the difference between a Drake Burner and a Drake Glider. It wouldn't make sense to let a player pick massive damage and marksman, when Drakes become available, not to mention how overpowered that would be.

So, yeah, a wizard can totally use an axe and a rogue can totally use (dark) magic (barring the bug that makes that advancement not work...). The restrictions come here with special effects. Many of these (backstab, magic casting bonus from staffs, firststrike, dash, etc.) only work if in the first melee slot, so you can't do everything at once.

The goal is to have it make sense and to reflect mainline units and expand upon them. Here's an earlier draft of things: http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dfx4vf3d_27ccx6c9f4

I'm cool with many things you said (was hoping to do in-dungeon villages at some point, and creeps do presently fight each other), but I don't see what race specific armor/weapons would do for the game. Dov thought this too and actually persuaded me to not make race specific armor in the first place.

Orcish Shyde: :| I was hoping that all my worries would be over with 1.5.11 having the menu fixed. I'll look at it tomorrow.

Well said. Didnt know it was all sussed out already. I just noticed that my options were a bit limited and i kept pouring points into attributes and more strikes. It got a bit repeditive, and if i dont do it - 's like a bit of a waste.

I like it, 's awesome what can be done now in days. I just dont like being forced into weaponspecs over and over. :(

But yeah, very very awesome man. :)
-Qes
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Re: Wesband (Now with relevant info in the first post)

Post by Ken_Oh »

Orcish Shyde wrote:Playing on 1.5.11, whenever I try to change my equipped weapon or armour, doing so sends me back to the "Select Weapon/Armour" screen, which has no option to get rid of the menu. The only way I've found out of this loop is to exit Wesnoth entirely...
Hmmm, I didn't find the bug you were talking about. Do you think you can post/send me a screenshot or something? If it makes any difference, I'm using the release here (but that -shouldn't- make a diff...).

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Re: Wesband (Now with relevant info in the first post)

Post by Dovolente »

Woohoo, this is coming along well! Great job Ken. I really like your changes to the map terrains, and many other changes big and small (though I thought the randomly-generated starting maps/villages were kind of nifty if still unpolished...guess those didn't work out?).

Wish I had the time to pitch in and help, but I really don't. Looks like you've got it well in hand though. :) Again, nice work.

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Re: Wesband (Now with relevant info in the first post)

Post by Ken_Oh »

Heh, cool to hear from you, man. I'm just glad you were MIA because of time and nothing worse than that.

Glad you like what's been done. Not sure if you were going to like the terrain and the opening up of the hallways. Anyway, I'm relieved to find you do.
Dovolente wrote:though I thought the randomly-generated starting maps/villages were kind of nifty if still unpolished...guess those didn't work out?
Don't know what you're talking about. Was this from some unreleased version you have?

For everyone else: I'm finalizing my ideas for a new weapon system. I'll try to draft it all out for you before I start coding it, just to pass the concepts to see if they make sense.

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Re: Wesband (Now with relevant info in the first post)

Post by Fanghorn »

Great. So tell us what you have in mind. Hopefully we can make something up together.

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Re: Wesband (Now with relevant info in the first post)

Post by Ken_Oh »

Here goes.

A weapon has 5 parts when wielded (in order):
-raw dmg-strikes (9-1, 2-3, etc.)
This is important to differentiate weapons from each other, and to make higher/lower grade weapons.
-addition of damage/strikes due to skills
Important so players can specialize.
-addition of damage/strikes due to body/deft/mind (currently, just up to 30% addition of attributes, so if listed 20% body, 10% deft with 10 body and 10 deft (10*.20 + 10*.10) = 3 extra damage, this depends on weapon i.e. axes and maces rely more on body, daggers and bows rely more on deft)
I added this to generalize weapons a little bit, so a character with 10 body will hit harder with a club than a unit with 1 body when both have no skill in bludgeon. This way weapons you don't have a skill in won't always be useless.
-race adjustments (dwarf gets +1 strike w/ axe, +25% damage w/ hammer; elf gets +1 strike w/ bow, troll gets -25% to non-lob, non-bludgeon)
This is to gear some races towards certain weapons.
-adjustment for attribute requirement if any (if you have 4 body and requires 5 body, you can still use the weapon but final damage reduced to 80%, i.e. 10 raw damage + 4 for skill +1 for attributes = 15 but reduced to 80% = 12)
This was just obvious, but will become more important in the new system.

The problem before was it was much easier to add damage than strikes for all weapons. This was a disadvantage for low-strike weapons. Take a mace that starts at 9-1 (9) versus a saber with 2-3 (6). The mace should be better, with 3 more points total damage. And, it does start off better, since if you add +2 damage and +1 strike to both, you get 11-2 (22) and 4-4 (16). However, when you add attribute bonuses (lets say just 4 for each) you get 15-2 (30) and 9-4 (36). The dagger catches up quickly. That might be OK if adding another strike to each puts the mace ahead, but all it does is makes it catch up: 15-3 (45), 9-5 (45).

The resolution I've come up with is to separate 1 strike weapons from 2+ strike weapons in a few ways.

1 strike (includes 0 strike for special cases)
-+2 damage per weapon damage skill level
-50% of some attributes added to weapon damage <---exact % may change, depends on weapon
-10% of some attributes added to weapon strikes <---exact % may change, depends on weapon
-higher grade weapons will never have more strikes, only more damage

2+ strike weapons
-+1 damage per weapon damage skill level
-25% of some attributes added to weapon damage <---exact % may change, depends on weapon
-20% of some attributes added to weapon strikes <---exact % may change, depends on weapon
-higher grade weapons can have some more damage (half the rate of 1 strike weapons), and/or more strikes

Along with that:
-bludgeon, heavy blade, polearm weapon speed skill will require x body and x/2 deft
-light blade damage will require x deft and x/2 body
-new attribute requirements for all weapons but crossbows (and "none" i.e. thunderstick). This will be based off of the weapon's damage. If a bow does 4-2 damage, then the required body is 4. Anything less than that will reduce the damage. Or, if you're throwing a heavy javelin that does 12-1 damage, the body requirement is 12. The javelin in this case might be "better" than the bow, but the bow is much easier to use. Some things are really hard to use so the requirement is times by 1.5 (a 10-1 boulder might actually require 15 body; axes aren't easy to throw either).

Chart shows the current plan:

Code: Select all

weapon                  required stat

bludgeon                body
light blade             deft
heavy blade             body
polearm                 body

lob                     body*1.5
thrown light blade      deft
thrown heavy blade      body*1.5
bow                     body
xbow                    ----
javelin                 body
none                    ----
The end result will be something like this.
Axe might be 8-1 (8).
Sword might be 5-2 (10).
Dagger might be 3-2 (6).

Give each +1 strike and +1 level of damage:
Axe = 10-2 (20).
Sword = 6-3 (18).
Dagger = 4-3 (12).

Axe is ahead. Axe will actually be a better weapon, but that's OK because, even though it will be cheaper to buy than sword, it will be harder to use. Dagger is a specialist, can use backstab and allows skirmisher as well as other things, so it's good where it is.

Now, due to stats, give the axe +6 damage and +1 strike, sword +3 damage and +2 strikes, same for dagger:
Axe = 16-3 (48).
Sword = 9-4 (36).
Dagger = 7-4 (28).

That looks OK. However, it's harder to advance strikes for axes and swords with weapon skills but easier to advance damage. For daggers, the opposite is true, so you might just end up with it like this:
Axe = 20-2 (40).
Sword = 11-3 (33).
Dagger = 5-5 (25).

I'm going to be busy converting Wesband to be compatible with Fractionoth for a while, so if you can get through all the math and want to comment before I make a huge mistake, please do.

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Re: Wesband (Now with relevant info in the first post)

Post by Golbeeze »

Everything looks good to me!
I totally forget to mention this. I found it a while ago and it slipped my mind. Backstab works when it is enemy-enemy-player. So if you have backstab and are attacking an enemy that is adjacent to another enemy (in the standard backstab formation), you get the extra damage. I don't know if it only works when they are fighting each other or if its any enemy. I didn't test it too much because I don't usually use backstab. My friend found it while we were playing a few weeks ago.
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Re: Wesband (Now with relevant info in the first post)

Post by Ken_Oh »

Eh, that's how Wesnoth works. I mean, those enemies weren't on the same team, right? I'd have to code for the main game to change that. ;p

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Re: Wesband (Now with relevant info in the first post)

Post by Golbeeze »

Oh ok, I thought backstab only worked when an enemy was surrounded by 2 allies.
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Qes
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Re: Wesband (Now with relevant info in the first post)

Post by Qes »

My friend and I dinked around on wesband - I love it.

A few bugs:

The first potion used for health or cure poison does not heal health. It will heal poison if poisoned, but the first potion just "fizzes" when trying to heal health. Subsequent potions do work.

When using the arrow keys to scroll through the purchasables in the shops, if i push "down" past the last option, wesnoth will crash.

(This one i think was mentioned but dont recall) Rogues dont get anything from taking "dark magic".

***

I'm glad to see the math on the weapons - it looks fair. I have a question about "Fists."
I was gonna make a monkish character using just fists (i.e. no weapon) and so I started uping strikes like crazy. Then when I switched to a club it became abusive. (and there was no reason to use fists.)

I was wondering if it was possible to make fists a reasonable weapon? It should do the least amount of damage - obviously. But perhaps give it a possibility of a weapon special "ability" or "abilities" that could be purchased with talent points.

I was thinking "slow." Since it could be about limiting the damage of the opponent.
Others would be fun too.

***

I hope armor gets a looking at.
When talking to my friend about it, the -% evasions really hurt. Also - how do they stack if you have more than one armor piece? They dont seem to be direct, since getting over 0% is difficult.

I was wondering if maybe giving each "slot" a specific negative instead of all of them being negatives to evasion might be the way to go.

Legs could have less movement, Torso could be less evasion, helmet could be less ranged strikes (no quick head movement). And a sheild could be less melee strikes (one handed weapons only).

Just an idea so that putting on significant armor that doesnt result in certainty in getting hit.

***

IT IS SO MUCH FUN!

Oh one last request - is it possible to put labels on the shops? I mean it's a small detail, but I didnt know how to hire henchmen for a long time until i systematically checked every single house in the start map.

***

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS. I cant say that enough.
:)


EDIT: (Upgraded to 1.5.12)

I was able to walk through walls after upgrading.
http://s5.tinypic.com/w1y6a8.jpg

-Qes
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Re: Wesband (Now with relevant info in the first post)

Post by Ken_Oh »

Qes wrote:I was wondering if it was possible to make fists a reasonable weapon? It should do the least amount of damage - obviously. But perhaps give it a possibility of a weapon special "ability" or "abilities" that could be purchased with talent points.
Monk-type path is on the list since it's a staple for roguelikes. However, since Wesnoth mainline doesn't have any such unit, it's low priority. When I want to get around to that, I would look into fashioning it after Shadowrun's "physical adepts."
Qes wrote:I hope armor gets a looking at.
When talking to my friend about it, the -% evasions really hurt. Also - how do they stack if you have more than one armor piece? They dont seem to be direct, since getting over 0% is difficult.
If you're not getting much over 0% resistance, then that is a problem. I'll look into it. However, evasion isn't for units with any more armor than leather. Instead, they should be using shields to regain the terrain defense lost from armor.

I really need to write help files on all that stuff.

However, the armor system is plenty open for debate and I'm taking any suggestions. I'm just not at the point yet to do any hard thinking about it.
Qes wrote:EDIT: (Upgraded to 1.5.12)

I was able to walk through walls after upgrading.
http://s5.tinypic.com/w1y6a8.jpg
Weird....oh wait, shoot. These silly Wesnoth devs. I went through all this time to go from this:
http://www.wesnoth.org/units/1.5.0/C/Dr ... heart.html
Terrian you can't get to = 99

To this:
http://www.wesnoth.org/units/1.5.6/C/Dr ... heart.html
Terrian you can't get to = UNREACHABLE

But now we're back to:
http://www.wesnoth.org/units/1.5.10/C/D ... heart.html

*shakes fist angrily*

Anyway, really glad you're liking it and thanks for the feedback. I hope to make it much better. This week is also constrained for time, so I hope I can get a little something done.

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Re: Wesband (Now with relevant info in the first post)

Post by Qes »

Did some more playtesting and have a few notes (note, just notations on what was easy and what wasnt):

Things start to get really really easy about level 8ish (character level) and i was just burning down through the mine as fast as i could (quit on level 28)

So I recommend there being more of a challenge "late game". Scaling monsters works very well for the first 12 dungeon levels or so, but after that peters out.

I recommend big uber monsters that make one flee, though i do know much of this will be addressed with the implimentation of the new weapons system.

Perhaps drakes could use some dungeon love, as well as dwarves. (Good and evil? - for when good guys are implemented)


***
I suggest raising the minimum requirements for duel and triple wield.

Perhaps add some abilities that function like a hybrid between melee and magic?
In this - perhaps people dont go the "duel wield route" but start enchanting their weapons. Like, Dark magic + Blade power/strikes would unlock an ability that would make their current weapon do either peirce/blunt/blade OR cold. In this it would look like another weapon option, but not be - it'd be just the same weapon with a different damage type. Fairie magics could do arcane, and human magic and runic magic could do fire. Troll magic maybe some "weapon type" that is special or isnt listed - so that nothing has resists to it.

Perhaps add a few abilities for ranged (nonmagical) fun? I.e. something akin to Rage and Dash. So that people could use bows/knives and then keep moving - perhaps shooting, killling, move, shooting and killing again. For the archer on the move. (This could eat up more abilities to make rangers less badass of all trades)


Is it possible to give abilities that create "proc" circumstances? Like 1 out of every 20 attacks, a blade will do damage to all adjacent opponents rather than just the attacked opponant. (This could be further boosted to 2/20 then 3/20 etc.)
Blunt weapons could have a 1/20 attack to just "skull crush" which would instantly kill the creature (wouldnt work on undead)
Piercing weapons could have a chance to 1/20 to "wound" the target, perhaps making it miss it's next turn?


***
Magic Ideas:
(general note - all spells should consume MOVEMENT points when they're cast, so that they're not repeatable, the amount of movement spent could be related to the amount of exhaustion suffered by the caster, it should also prevent attacking in the round)

Runes for runic magic. Heroe's arena had this. They could function like terrain markers (different Teamcolored Norse Rune's for graphics) which when placed on the ground have varying effects. Runic magic users would have to research two things, A) the number or runes they could have active at any one time (new ones would destroy old ones), and B) the type/kind of runes they could cast
I remember heroes' arena had something like:
- Healing rune, anything adjacent or on gains 4 hp per turn
- Fire rune, anything adjacent or on takes 8 fire damage per turn
Also fun ideas (which would obviously be available at different "mind" levels depending on power):
- Exploding rune, anything adjacent destroys rune, but takes 20 fire damage
- Earth Rune, all friendly adjacent characters gain 20% resistances to physical damage types
- Spirit Rune, all friendly adjacent characters gain 20% resistances to magical damage tpes
- Shadow Rune (mabye requires darkmagic too?), all friendly adjacent characters are invisible/stealth/ambushing
- Light Rune (maybe require light/human magic too?), all friendly adjacent characters gain +50 Temporary HP
- Rune of Courage, All adjacent friendlies gain 25% to damage
- Rune of Evasion, All adjacent friendlies gain 10% to evasion
- Rune of Repulsion, All adjacent hexes gain 99 movement required to enter (friendlies would be able to enter at normal costs)
- Rune of Commerce, a shop where characters could buy and sell items
- Rune of Glory, All adjacent friendlies gain 2x the XP
- Rune of Resurrection, right-click menu which would allow for the 'recall' of deceased henchmen or allies, albeit without items or equipment

Dark Magic:
- Dark Ritual, Convert gold (at some ratio) into XP (pumping more points would improve the ratio)
- Raise Skeleton Warrior, Raises a skeletal warrior (Skeletal warrior gradually loses experience each turn, when it's experience reaches 0, it dies. It can also be killed normally. If the skeleton kills things, it can keep going, these skeleton may not level) (Points in this increase XP of skeleton, and the number of skeletons allowed at once.)
- Raise Skeletal Archer, As Raise skeleton only for archers
- Plague Wave, Causes all creatures adjacent to hex to become "plagued" - if they die for any reason in the that turn (only lasts one), they are replaced by their WC counterparts.
- Hex, Target creature in sight becomes "hexed", it only has a 40% chance to hit or lower for any nonmagical attacks. (replaces marksman if target has it, and affects all attacks except magical)
- Raise Mummy, As raise Skeleton, except it creates a special Soulless. This soulless possesses plague as normal, but is significantly stronger and tougher. It still dies when it's Xp expires.
- Command Spirit, Has a 50% chance to convert any ghostline unit into a permanent henchmen. Also has a 40% chance of doing nothing, and a 10% chance of reducing one's on current HP by 50%. (Pumping points into this makes the %s more favorable)
- Poison Blade, Daggers weilded by the character gain the "poison" weapon special.
- Summon Bone Wall, Summons a 0 movment 0% evasion (in all terrain) bone wall with 60% blade, 80% perice, and 20% blunt and cold resistances. (Pumping points into this reduces the movment cost associated with it, and the number of bonewalls that can be out at a time.)
- Life leach, (Cast on friendly target), Target loses 25% current HP, caster gains equal amount.
- Drain Life, Staff attacks gain the "drain life" weapon special
- Lichdom, (cannot pick spiritform) Grants the resistances of a lich and the undead type to the caster. Magical attacks gain "Drain life" weapons special.
- Spiritform (cannot pick lichdom) changes the caster's "cave wall" terrain movement (passing through walls) costs to 3 and character gains flight movement type (though no restrictions in cavelike spaces). Improves physical resistances but lowers arcane resistance and damage in physical (non-magical or typed) attacks.
- Orb of Oblivion, Summons an dark orb which has 50 flying movement, a magical berzerk attack of 50-1 with a range of "Dark" (so that nothing can fight it). Casting also reduces current hit points by half and movement to 0. Orb lasts 1 turn.

Human Magic:
(Elementalism)
- Summon Air Elemental, Summons a temporary henchmen that slowly loses experince, when it runs out of experience, it disappears. Air elementals specialize in strikes and movement and have a ranged attack, but are low in HP and magical resistances. (Pumping points into this increases the strengths of the Elemental, and the number that can be out at one time.)
- Summon Earth Elemental, As Air elemental except earth. Earth Elementals specialize in resistances, and HP, but are slow, weak, and easy to hit.
- Summon Fire Elemental, As Air elemental, but of fire. Fire elementals specialize in burst Damage and magical resistances, but are low in HP.
- Summon Water Elemental, As Air elemental but of Water. Water elementals specialize in evasiveness and XP (time) and are mediocre everywhere else.

- Lightning bolt, All creatures and characters in hexes within a line between the caster and the target hex take 8 fire damage (pumping points into this increases damage) Range is determined by movement, and consumes an amount of movement equal to the range used.
- Fire Ball, All creatures and characters in the target and adjacent hexes take 8 fire damage. (Pumping points into this increases damage). It consumes an amount of movement equal to the distance the target hex is away from the caster.
- Ice Blast, All characters and creatures adjacent to the caster are slowed and take 8 cold damage. (Pumping points into this increases the damage) Movement of caster is halved.
- Earthquake, All characters and creatures adjacent to the caster take 15 Impact Damage. (Pumping points into this increases the Damage) Movement of caster is halved.

- Flight, Caster gains "flight" movetype for the turn (though no penalties in cave spaces).
- Firesheild, Grants caster an attack for one turn which only works defensively, doing high damage to melee attackers.
- Ice Chains, reduces target creature's movement to 0 for the following turn.
- Earthmold, Changes terrain types of cave hexes

- Light, Caster gains illuminate for the turn
- Hearth, Caster gains regenerate and +8 healing for one turn (but loses all movement)
- Wellspring, Caster creates a well(village). (Loses all movement and is slowed)
- Tunnel, Caster creates stairs up, or stairs down. (Loses all movement and is slowed)

Fairie Magic:
- Phasing, Caster has a 50% chance of being hit by any attack for one turn, regardless of terrain or weapon specials. (Pumping points into this reduces movement cost)
-Teleportation, once per turn, the caster may move to any hex not in a shroud. (Pumping points into this reduces movement cost)
-Telekeneitic Blast, Creautures in adjacent hexes to target hex take 5 damage and move one hex away from target hex out of turn. Creatures in target hex is slowed and take 10 damage. (Pumping points into this increases damage)
- Transposition, Target friendly unit and caster swap positions.

- Command Vines, vines eek out of the ground to hamper enemies - Target hex and surrounding hexes impose a "slow" and "poison" condition on anything that passes through them for a number of turns equal to the movement of the caster. Caster loses all movement.
- Summon Wolf, Summons a wolf which slowly loses experience and disappears when out of experience. Wolfs specialize in numbers, speed and strikes. (Pumping points into this increases the quality of the wolf summoned and number of wolves allowed.)
- Summon Bear, As summon wolf but a bear. Bears specialize in HP, Damage and have Berzerk, but low speed.
- Summon Panther, As summon wolf but a panther. Panthers specialize in stealth and backstab.

- Poison Immunity, Caster becomes immune to poison.
- Freedom of Movement, Caster becomes immune to slow
- Steel Gaze, Caster becomes immune to petrify
- Starspirit, Caster gains 100% arcane resistance

- Star Blast, Target creature takes 20 arcane damage and takes -10% arcane resistance.
- Star Fury, All of the caster's attacks become "arcane" damage type, and gain a 25% bonus to damage.
- Star Song, All enemies adjacent to the caster take 5 arcane damage, and lose 5% arcane resistance per turn. (Pumping points into this increases the damage per turn)
- Star Gaze, Caster gains a melee attack 1-1 which has the weaponspecials petrify and magical. The caster may also unpetrify any adjacent creature at the expense of all the caster's movement.

Troll Magic:

- Voodoo Doll; Troll creates a voodoo doll henchmen, this henchmen lasts 3 turns, has 0% evasion, and -50% to all resistances. It also has 500 HP with no attacks. (Enemies will attack this juicy target instead of the troll.) (Pumping points into this increaes the HP significantly)
- Voodoo Trance; Troll loses all movement but regenerates to full health. Troll also gains -100% to all resistances for one turn. (Pumping points into this reduces the resistances penalty)
- Voodoo Puppet; Troll gains control of one humanoid creature for 1 turn (immediately gains back all movement and returns to normal side's control on trolls following turn). Troll loses all movement. (Pumping points into this increases the amount of time the Troll has control of the target (while using the puppet, the troll always has 0 movement, the troll can release control at will - and gain half his movement back if he does so, but the target has to have all of it's movement for this option to exist)
- Voodoo Curse; Troll curses target enemy. Enemy may attack or move, but not both.

- Witchdoctor; Troll can heal another character 16 points, but loses regeneration for the turn.
- Spell "Fist"; Troll thinks his fists are magical spells that destroy objects, which makes it true. Fist attacks gain Magical Weaponspecial.
- Spell "Rock"; Troll thinks his rock that are thrown are actually magical spells being hurled, which makes it true. Thrown rocks gain Magical Weaponspecial
- Scream song; Troll gains berzerk in his melee attacks for one round. (Pumping points into this reduces movement costs)

- Troll Poetry; Gain control of Target troll, (movement cost determined by level of target troll). (Pumping points into this increases the amount of trolls able to be influenced by the poetry)
- Troll Oration; Transfer XP from the caster to target troll henchmen, exchange is permanent. (Pumping points into this increases the amount of XP able to be transfered - an option window should appear giving acceptable amounts)
- Troll Debate; Attack Target henchmen (perhaps releasing it if necessary). If former henchmen dies, caster gains all of that troll's experience plus the normal experience allotted for the kill.
- Troll Politics; All Troll henchmen gain double their movement, caster loses all movement.

- Batfling; Caster destroys target adjacent bat, and selects target enemy. Target enemy takes the former bats current HP x2 in blunt damage.
- Wield Goblin; Caster destroys adjacent goblin. Caster gains a new weapon "Goblin" Which does an amount of damage per attack equal to the former goblin's hp and one attack. This is a "blunt" weapon and troll gains weapon specializatoin benefits from it. The goblin weapon loses 1 damage per turn. When damage = 0, the goblin weapon is lost.
- Orc Shield; Caster destroys adjacent orc. Caster gains a new "shield" (immediately equiped) which gives an amount of physical AND fire resistances equal to the former orc's HP. Shield degrades in quality over time and when it reaches 0% resistance bonus, it is lost.
- Dwarf Toss; Caster selects target adjacent dwarf, and target space away within movement range. Dwarf is moved to the target space for free, caster loses all movement.
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Magic Items:
Unpetrify potion. Using this on a petrified character removes the petrification. (Finally a reason to put petrifying creatures/specials into the monster lists. :D)

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A few things about the magic ideas:
All the numbers were just a rough guess to give an impression of the spells purpose - not any real indication of balance or good use.

The summons - Keep in mind that anything they kill is not going to be experience gained by the characters owning them. It merely prolongs their existence, in this - characters will level more slowly if they're using summons to do their dirty work. 's a bit self balancing,

Troll "wielding" - Obviously more "late game" abilities. As utilizing weaker creatures to hurt bigger nastier monsters is the point. As the goblins and orcs in such a scenario would be more or less fodder by that point.

These are of course - just ideas.
:)
I hope they help somewhat with your creative juices.
-Qes
Last edited by Qes on March 3rd, 2009, 1:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Yes I use windows.
Yes I'm aware of what that means.
Yes I'm still gonna use windows.

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