Green Mage

[Maedhros]

I have read some posts before about a green mage, and thought I would share my ideas. I couldn't find the original thread so I apologize for starting this new one.

Basically, I already have a unit that is an elvish noble that advances to the Kalenz style elvish lord. I would like to give him an alternate advance to green mage. One of the motivations for this, I have to admit, is that I have borrowed some green mage artwork that is out there but don't want to have to draw the female line. This way, there are only male green mages, which is fair, as there are plenty of female only magical units among the elvish faction.

The green mage will be good in the forest, like any elf. Maybe he will also have a slow, entangle type attack. He is not really interesting. But I see him advancing to a Forest Mage, who will be a bit more interesting.

The Forest Mage will have 70% defense in the forest. Also, he will have move 10, but while forest movement will only cost 1, movement on other terrains will cost at least 3 and often more, so that he sucks outside the forest. I think his slow attack also goes to a slow aura, per a suggestion in a post I read some time ago.

Now, the Forest Mage can advance to a level 4, Forest Lord or some such. BUT, he doesn't have to. He can also advance to Forest Mage, and basically stay unchanged. Why would he want to do that? Because the Forest Lord has movement 1000, but movement costs other than forest are 1001. That is, the Forest Lord can never leave his home forest. There, though, he can teleport anywhere. Also, he has sylvan spark so he regenerates in the forest. Basically, he is super powerful in his home forest, but he is confined to it forever.

What do you think?

[Turuk]

Interesting, my only thought on the Forest Lord is the extreme reliance on terrain, and hoping that there will be heavy forests in each map. Can he just teleport from the edge of one forest into the edge of the closest forest tile? Or is it anywhere on the map that has a forest tile?

I am taking it that this is your idea for a campaign option, and not inclusion into mainline?

[Skizzaltix]

Turuk has a very definite point about the terrain reliancy--However, if you were to use this guy in a custom campaign, that wouldn't be an issue. I also think the idea of forest teleportation is a good one--Could be very interesting.
You can just set other terrain costs to unwalkable and forest terrain cost to 0--That would be a little neater than giving him 1000 MS.

[LemonTea]

Hmm, if this is in a campaign, and you have a Forest Lord, he'll become pretty much perfectly useless if your castle does not have at least one adjacent forest tile. But I'm assuming if you make the campaign your keep will always have a forest surrounding it, correct? Though having a lvl 4 unit that can do nothing but defend (assuming there's no forest path to the enemies, as that would make it imba as having forest lords can make it to their keep by turn 2) seems kinda awkward.

I say the idea can't really work smoothly for a 'normal' campaign, so I'm assuming the campaign you intend to use it in will have a drastically different approach?

[Maedhros]

I play mainly multiplayer on big, random maps. There are always some decent sized forests. The Forest Lord won't be stuck on a castle because, presumably, when he advances to Forest Lord he will be in a forest. I'd like him to at least be able to move through streams within his forest, though, so I'll need someone to show me how to give him different movement over water next to forests than over plain old water.

[Skizzaltix]

Well, I'm not sure how it will work on random maps, but it could be interesting all the same. I can definitely see an enemy see you level one up, and promptly avoid whatever patch of forest it's in--Part of the reason I think the teleport to any forest on the map could be cool (It would also solve the problem of moving over streams).
On the other hand, if your enemy happens to have a castle next to a forest... Suddenly you have a level 4 uber-powerful unit with a magical attack jumping on your leader

[mattyp]

Ok, so what you could do is give your green mage 1 movement point. Then, you allow him to move on non forest terrain at a cost of 1. That way he can still cross over gaps of forest, albeit very slowly. Then you make the move cost for forest to zero. That way, the green mage can cross gaps between forests that are one hex wide in one turn (like small forest creeks) and still keep moving as much as you want in the other forest part. (ie. a green mage moves 5 spaces through forest, moves one space into a creek, and then moves 4 more forest spaces on the other side.)

Since you wanted to have him confined to the forest, you could give him some limitations, like if he's not in a forest, he starts to slowly die, cause the forest is what supplies him with life, or make his defense in non forest terrain so bad that its a guaranteed hit for any attackers... if you combined those two, that would essentially confine the green mage to the forest except for short trips in low risk situations. If you want to go even further, you could probably cause all of his weapons to not work outside the forest with a little bit of uml, or make the damage that he takes outside the forest like 10 times as high.

[Skizzaltix]

Of course, if you only give him one move point, he'll only have a sight-range of one--Probably better to give him more points and have outside terrain cost more. However, the theory is sound

[Turuk]

Of course, if you only give him one move point, he'll only have a sight-range of one--Probably better to give him more points and have outside terrain cost more. However, the theory is sound

A very accurate point, having a level 4 unit that is dependent on other units to see in maps with fog could be a bit of a hassle for the player.

The Forest Lord won't be stuck on a castle because, presumably, when he advances to Forest Lord he will be in a forest.

I understand where you are coming from with this, but it is a dangerous presumption. There will be times when a player goes from level 3 to the level 4 Forest Lord in other terrain. I know that with the way you outlined the Forest Mage, other terrain costs so much that he will almost always be kept in the forest... but you can never wager on a player keeping him there.

[Skizzaltix]

Actually, if I were you, I'd let him move across castle spaces freely, too--It's something of a game convention, for obvious reasons, and even if there's no real point in abiding by it, I always feel like it's better to keep them when possible, because otherwise it can become confusing for the player.
Probably only give him 50-60% defense in them, though. After all, his point is to make it so that your enemies tremble in their boots at the very thought of moving next to a patch of forest...

[rpell]

Sorry if this is a bit of a tangent, but I was thinking that this green mage or green lord unit could be given power over tree units within their forest; both friendly and foe? Perhaps the mage could direct enemy trees to attack enemy units?

[CIB]

This "1000 movement" thing sounds quite unprofessional, it will also slow down the engine when calculating the possible moves. A good alternative would be to implement a teleport ability, using right-click options, which could be used to teleport the Green Mage to any forest tile on the map. This would also solve all problems with moving him between different patches of forest.