Sceptre of Life, version 0.12.1

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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Crushmaster
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Re: Sceptre of Life, version 0.4.2

Post by Crushmaster » September 16th, 2008, 11:33 pm

Hi OSJ,
I downloaded the maps you posted (Tera's Clench), and I actually think they look fine with the sand mountains. :) That's just my opinion, of course, and you can do it to something else if you wish.
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Last edited by Crushmaster on September 17th, 2008, 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sceptre of Life, version 0.4.2

Post by opensourcejunkie » September 17th, 2008, 2:11 pm

Hmm. Now that I look at it again, I'm not as vehemently disgusted by those sand hills. strange...

I don't know. I'll have to ponder it a bit. Fortunately, it's more of an aesthetic issue rather than a tactical one. I suppose that my inclination to use normal mountain terrain stems from the fact that I'm trying to present the mountains as being from the same range as the mountains previously seen (in scenarios 1 && 2). That way, the terrain would match up better with the overall map of wesnoth.

That being said, I also like the somewhat "deader" look presented by the desert mountains. That look would better convey a sense of death and decay in the orcish territories, which would help solidify some future assertions I make about the orcs...

I'll have to think about it. Thanks, CM,
--OSJ
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Re: Sceptre of Life, version 0.4.2

Post by Crushmaster » September 18th, 2008, 4:13 am

opensourcejunkie wrote:Hmm. Now that I look at it again, I'm not as vehemently disgusted by those sand hills. strange...

I don't know. I'll have to ponder it a bit. Fortunately, it's more of an aesthetic issue rather than a tactical one. I suppose that my inclination to use normal mountain terrain stems from the fact that I'm trying to present the mountains as being from the same range as the mountains previously seen (in scenarios 1 && 2). That way, the terrain would match up better with the overall map of wesnoth.

That being said, I also like the somewhat "deader" look presented by the desert mountains. That look would better convey a sense of death and decay in the orcish territories, which would help solidify some future assertions I make about the orcs...

I'll have to think about it. Thanks, CM,
--OSJ
You're welcome. :)
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Re: Sceptre of Life, version 0.4.2

Post by Akkarin345 » September 18th, 2008, 6:26 am

Just played the campaign and i thought it was really good! I liked the idea of the sparring ground and the new twist of the two units could not be far away from each other. I also loved how all the terrain kept changing. The story line was gripping and i can't wait to see the rest of the campaign come out!

Looking foward to the rest!

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Re: Sceptre of Life, version 0.4.2

Post by opensourcejunkie » September 23rd, 2008, 5:22 pm

thanks! Scenario 5 is basically done, but I can't release it yet due to an elusive bug. So, pending its solution, hopefully I'll be able to keep working toward the rest.

thanks for playing,
--OSJ
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Re: Sceptre of Life, version 0.4.2

Post by Crushmaster » September 23rd, 2008, 8:12 pm

opensourcejunkie wrote:thanks! Scenario 5 is basically done, but I can't release it yet due to an elusive bug. So, pending its solution, hopefully I'll be able to keep working toward the rest.

thanks for playing,
--OSJ
I'll be sure to play it when you're done. :)
Also, on Scenario four, there's another thing about the terrain:
I think it looks kind of strange to mix sand/desert/grassland tiles like that. I think it would be best to make with more desert tiles, less grassland tiles, more grassland tiles, less grassland tiles, and so forth.
Of course, that's just my opinion. :) If you wish, I could probably do some tweaking on the map editor and then take a screenshot and post it here.
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Re: Sceptre of Life, version 0.4.2

Post by Max » September 23rd, 2008, 9:41 pm

opensourcejunkie wrote:thanks! Scenario 5 is basically done, but I can't release it yet due to an elusive bug.
do you need help?

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Re: Sceptre of Life, version 0.4.2

Post by opensourcejunkie » September 24th, 2008, 8:09 am

I may; I'm still investigating it myself. Basically, it's a save-file issue, where a group of units (supposedly) stored in a variable are not actually being stored. Because it's stored two scenarios in the past, I have to play through two scenarios before I can test any changes.

So perhaps elusive isn't the term - rather, it's excessively time consuming. *sighs*

--OSJ

Edit: @Crushmaster,
If you wish, I could probably do some tweaking on the map editor and then take a screenshot and post it here.
that would be great; I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at, but if I saw what you're referring to, it'd be easier to envision. Along with a screen shot, if you post the actual map file as well, that'll make it easier to replicate.

Thanks for putting the effort into this, CM!
--OSJ
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Re: Sceptre of Life, version 0.4.2

Post by opensourcejunkie » September 24th, 2008, 9:02 am

Hey all, you can ignore this post. I'm attaching a copy of SOL here because it was too large to upload to Gna!; I'm hoping it will assist with a bugfix.
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Re: Sceptre of Life, version 0.4.2

Post by docrock » September 24th, 2008, 5:39 pm

playing current on BfW 1.4.5 default difficulty, in the first scenario when Derril returns he does not recruit a full castle (3 units) but only 2, though he would have the money to, nice twist imho to not make him too superior, but was it intentional?
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Re: Sceptre of Life, version 0.4.2

Post by Crushmaster » September 24th, 2008, 10:36 pm

opensourcejunkie wrote: Edit: @Crushmaster,
If you wish, I could probably do some tweaking on the map editor and then take a screenshot and post it here.
that would be great; I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at, but if I saw what you're referring to, it'd be easier to envision. Along with a screen shot, if you post the actual map file as well, that'll make it easier to replicate.

Thanks for putting the effort into this, CM!
--OSJ
OK, I did some playing around with it earlier, so here's the map file and the screenshot:
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04_Teras_Clench_1.map
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TerasClenchScreenshot.jpg
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Re: Sceptre of Life, version 0.4.2

Post by opensourcejunkie » September 25th, 2008, 2:24 pm

@docrock

hey! how've you been? Actually, that was (kinda) intentional. It was suggested that I lighten the load a bit on the human player, so I upped Aeryn's starting gold. To compensate for that, I knocked Derril's down by an equivalent chunk.

As for why he didn't recruit a full castleful, I couldn't tell you. maybe has something to do with upkeep, as he doesn't get very many villages. I dunno if the AI is that smart, though.


@CM

Okay, now I understand what you're getting at - basically, having desert right up next to regular grasslands does seem a bit contradictory.

The reason I had those swirls of desert and grassland was because I'm trying to present an unnatural desert to the viewer. Basically, the area should be entirely grassland, but because of the ecological indifference of the orcs (over-hunting, forest razes, etc.), a desert has emerged.

The desert is new; it probably began maybe 50 - 100 years ago. It is also expanding rapidly, hindered only by the giant river to its south. This sense of a growing desert is what caused me to create wisps and "tentacles" of sand to creep across the green plains.

...of course, that doesn't really happen in natural desertification; I believe that the effect is closer to what you were shooting for - a barricade of desert sand that slowly pushes further and further out. Actually, the best representation would be a gradient of sand and grass that changes the closer you get to the desert, but that isn't happening in a KISS game, so we'll have to make do.

So I edited the map to bring it closer to a compromise of opinion - that is, I edited one of my maps to bring it closer to your map. The reason I didn't simply edit your revised map was because it had that third stream in it, which I wasn't too keen on (no reason; I simply like it better with just two. Btw, in case there was any confusion, that segment of pathway/swamp that leads up through the mountains in the northwest - that's supposed to represent a dried up/nearly dry stream bed. That's why it connects directly to the stream of water. [I don't know if that's why you added the third stream or not])

At any rate, I removed a bunch of the fingery wisps of desert sand, preferring a blunter advancement of the desert. I did however keep in a couple patches of sand that are prematurely forming in the grassland areas. I kept them in mostly for tactical reasons, also to provide a more varied scenery.

One thing I wanted to do was put in some of that savanna terrain like you did. That's a good idea putting it between the grassland and the desert, but I could never get it to look quite right. Also, it makes the desert look slightly less invasive, i.e. more gradual. Perhaps a few touches of savanna at the right places could make for a more varied and realistic map. What do you think?

As for the mountains vs. sand hills, I think I'm gonna go with the sand hills. Granted the regular mountains would help represent the temporary/new nature of this desert, but I think that for the sake of aesthetics, we should go with the sand hills, as you suggested.

Thanks again for all the map help! If the terrain in the new map I've posted still looks weird, let me know (or edit it yourself again :-). Also, if you get the chance, I've attached the map for scenario 5. Disregarding the desert wisps (which I'll edit out later), could you take a quick glance at it to see if anything seems awry? Thanks again for the aesthetic advice,
--OSJ

Edit: P.S. how did yo get a screenshot of the entire northern part of the map? Do you just have insane resolution, or is there a way to zoom in the map editor that I don't know about?
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Re: Sceptre of Life, version 0.4.2

Post by Crushmaster » September 25th, 2008, 3:17 pm

opensourcejunkie wrote: ...of course, that doesn't really happen in natural desertification; I believe that the effect is closer to what you were shooting for - a barricade of desert sand that slowly pushes further and further out. Actually, the best representation would be a gradient of sand and grass that changes the closer you get to the desert, but that isn't happening in a KISS game, so we'll have to make do.

So I edited the map to bring it closer to a compromise of opinion - that is, I edited one of my maps to bring it closer to your map. The reason I didn't simply edit your revised map was because it had that third stream in it, which I wasn't too keen on (no reason; I simply like it better with just two. Btw, in case there was any confusion, that segment of pathway/swamp that leads up through the mountains in the northwest - that's supposed to represent a dried up/nearly dry stream bed. That's why it connects directly to the stream of water. [I don't know if that's why you added the third stream or not])

At any rate, I removed a bunch of the fingery wisps of desert sand, preferring a blunter advancement of the desert. I did however keep in a couple patches of sand that are prematurely forming in the grassland areas. I kept them in mostly for tactical reasons, also to provide a more varied scenery.

One thing I wanted to do was put in some of that savanna terrain like you did. That's a good idea putting it between the grassland and the desert, but I could never get it to look quite right. Also, it makes the desert look slightly less invasive, i.e. more gradual. Perhaps a few touches of savanna at the right places could make for a more varied and realistic map. What do you think?

As for the mountains vs. sand hills, I think I'm gonna go with the sand hills. Granted the regular mountains would help represent the temporary/new nature of this desert, but I think that for the sake of aesthetics, we should go with the sand hills, as you suggested.

Thanks again for all the map help! If the terrain in the new map I've posted still looks weird, let me know (or edit it yourself again :-). Also, if you get the chance, I've attached the map for scenario 5. Disregarding the desert wisps (which I'll edit out later), could you take a quick glance at it to see if anything seems awry? Thanks again for the aesthetic advice,
--OSJ

Edit: P.S. how did yo get a screenshot of the entire northern part of the map? Do you just have insane resolution, or is there a way to zoom in the map editor that I don't know about?
Oops...sorry about the third stream. I didn't know about that. :)
As for savanna, yes, I agree with you. :) Before I played around some with Tera's Clech yesterday, I took a quick look at the multiplayer "Random Desert" map. They used mostly a mixture of savanna and desert for it.
And I'm glad to help. :)
In reference to the maps you posted, I'll check them out. As for the screenshot, I zoomed out on the map editor to take it.
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Re: Sceptre of Life, version 0.4.2

Post by docrock » September 25th, 2008, 6:31 pm

hey! how've you been?
hehe, you know that old chinese curse "may you live in interesting times"? i do.

besides that, was now on "Politician's Blunder", which at first gave me a really hard time especially after that direwolf dude and his minions came in. but consequent defense, usage of terrain, levelling and those runes finally made me thin him out enough to survive. as soon as the elves come in everything is well. just three notes:
- when Elrial reaches the marked spot you can recruit elvish scouts, wonderful. but you have two castles to recruit from and that makes 4 scouts per turn. intentional?
- the dwarfish runemaster as advancement for Burin appears twice when you advance him. i'd guess one is some kind of default from an era i got installed and the other is from the campaign.
- if you would level up a unit by killing Survak this unit actually does not level because of the movement of the chars and the following dialogue.

otherwise, great fun so far. good job.

edit: also played "Overprotective" through now. respect, that is one perfectly well balanced scenario. at first i thought they would overwhelm me easily, but then i realized the fineness of design. one really can apply military rules on that scenario. and it works. grats, especially on the changing objectives.

edit (again, tm): "Alone Time", my, those poor saurians, their leader started his last journey on turn 10, and those orcs, how are they supposed to ever cross that river? lol, they are suiciding amass at my spearmen. too easy imho, maybe let those orcs build their ford in the middle of the map and have the saurians come from the southwest corner of the map and have a mix of more skirmishers and less magic users. also, maybe a second ford or a broader first ford (3 hexes) would make it easier for the player to cross as well ... coz crossing that ford is also for the player almost impossible. at the time you get there to mount an offense the orc leader recruits one unit per turn. you can kill at best 2 orc units a turn when fighting from that ford. that makes up for a) a too high basic income for the orc or b) too few hexes to fight from in the ford, also, the allied peasant forces at this point are kinda useless coz your own forces are blocking every frelling river hex. give us more hexes i say.
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Re: Sceptre of Life, version 0.4.2

Post by opensourcejunkie » September 27th, 2008, 10:13 am

Okay, I finally got that bug worked out, so I have a completed scenario 5 to post. There are a few changes I plan to make, including a different final objective (one that does not require you to defeat all enemy leaders), as well as some smoothing over of dialogue. However, it is more or less complete, and I'll save those changes for the next bugfix release (which will also address all of the issues brought up in the forum recently).

Thanks for playing!
--OSJ
Attachments
Sceptre_of_Life-short_0_5_0.zip
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