How to play Northerners
Moderator: Forum Moderators
Goblins are not too helpful against the skirmishers, I agree. But, against a force with a higher concentration of actual drakes, they can be helpful. Their ranged attack is weak, true, but it is stronger then nearly all other northerners. And, if a couple get up to be impalers, then they are a great holding force against clashers, and can stand up decently to the skirmishers since they have firststrike. Also, since they are so cheap, they can be decent cost-effectively when just swarming drakes (save for clashers).
As initial recruits, I don't think they are too great, but if the opponent gets a fair number of dragon-types out I feel they are very effective.
As initial recruits, I don't think they are too great, but if the opponent gets a fair number of dragon-types out I feel they are very effective.
The replies so far have simply dealt with unit vs unit comparisons. One interesting thing is that Noyga also recommends the troll against a saurian/burner opposition. I was a bit surprised because of their fire weakness but will try that.
My main question "is this a generally problematic match-up for Northerners?" remains unanswered. Do other people have the same problems? As the Northerner player it seems I must concentrate my forces to outnumber the enemy in this match-up by quite a bit.
My main question "is this a generally problematic match-up for Northerners?" remains unanswered. Do other people have the same problems? As the Northerner player it seems I must concentrate my forces to outnumber the enemy in this match-up by quite a bit.
Try some Multiplayer Scenarios / Campaigns
Okay, in light of my recent experience I start picking up here... I guess especially with a decent Drake opponent, I cannot really attack a group of his units without making sure:JW wrote:Generally, with Northerners a good mix of Regen, Poison, and brute strength is needed, and it needs to be applied appropriately according to terrain and opposition. Gold management is really an issue
- 1. The Big Picture: I'm not losing out on the village hunt elsewhere (my scouts are more expensive than his).
2. Advancing: I'm not abandoning my terrain / defense advantage to do so (it does figure a lot more here because Drakes are only 30% or 40%, while a troll varies between 30% and 60% and an assassin between 40% and 70% on most land terrains, saurians are a different matter). It's a much more serious issue for Northerners in this situation than normally.
3. Go Hunt in Packs: I outnumber him and my group includes units that can soak the damage (trolls, grunts less so), deal damage (spearmen/archers and grunts at night), poison (assassin) and cover/block (assassin and spearmen). If I miss any of those, I better not attack.
4. Finishing strokes: I have some unit(s) nearby that hunt down retreating Drakes/Saurians (wolfrider). It doesn't help to wear down my units if the enemy just retreats the near-dead units to level them up later.
5. Steady Reinforcements: I have a plan for getting in reinforcements (they should come steadily as a Northerner) .
6. Village healing: I can't heal all my wounded, but retreat those with a little experience in time so that I might eventually advance a unit (that also means covering the retreat which is really hard to do against a Drake player).
I guess the hard part for me really is keeping my "packs" together when Drakes and Saurians are going this way and that to snatch villages or retreat & heal up. Can't really play reactively as a Northerner
.Try some Multiplayer Scenarios / Campaigns
I can't wait for the Northerns vs Rebels. Those pesky elves just squish me like a [censored] bug (if a bug can be [censored]).
Most of the time the rebels got better defense bonus than the Orc, also all the rebels got a pesky bow thus they are never in active attack position - they just poke your units. So all the matchups vs Rebels I've played are this - they advance, I advance, we meet probably just before or in the day - I back up to the night (otherwise I receive too much damage), then the Night comes - I advance again and 75% of the time did not manage to push him properly thus I die several turns later.
Orcs are too narrow specialized: melee or ranged, until level 2 they do not have any balanced unit thus must of the time the enemy exploits this weak point.
So I am almost desperate for any advice...seems I am missing the big picture vs the rebels and slowly perish.
Vs Drakes with lack of saurons I do at least 50% archers. Those pack good punch vs melee, since their fighters are pretty weak at firing back. Also archers retaliate when attacked by ranged dragons thus delivering pretty good damage. Keep them in any good terrain to get the min 50% bonus - it will be at least 10% better than all the flyers.
Most of the time the rebels got better defense bonus than the Orc, also all the rebels got a pesky bow thus they are never in active attack position - they just poke your units. So all the matchups vs Rebels I've played are this - they advance, I advance, we meet probably just before or in the day - I back up to the night (otherwise I receive too much damage), then the Night comes - I advance again and 75% of the time did not manage to push him properly thus I die several turns later.
Orcs are too narrow specialized: melee or ranged, until level 2 they do not have any balanced unit thus must of the time the enemy exploits this weak point.
So I am almost desperate for any advice...seems I am missing the big picture vs the rebels and slowly perish.
Vs Drakes with lack of saurons I do at least 50% archers. Those pack good punch vs melee, since their fighters are pretty weak at firing back. Also archers retaliate when attacked by ranged dragons thus delivering pretty good damage. Keep them in any good terrain to get the min 50% bonus - it will be at least 10% better than all the flyers.
-
F8 Binds...
- Saurian Cartographer
- Posts: 622
- Joined: November 26th, 2006, 3:13 pm
- Location: Mid-Western United States
Arcador- I suggest using more grunts and trolls in your lines. Even if you lack magic, you can use brute force at night to shove them out. 11-2 for grunts is nothing to laugh at, and archers do a mere 4-4 against trolls. Really, elves are quite frail. Attempt to lure them out of their forests. If they refuse, use poison and big hitters like grunts to kick them out with brute force. Try to avoid attacking fighters with melee- They usually either do little damage in ranged or take your retaliation damage back in melee, which you are better at. Woses you can toast with archers and finish with grunts. Generally, these are the guidelines.
Proud creator of 4p- Underworld. Fascinated by Multiplayer design and balance.
I am the lone revenant of the n3t clan.
I am the lone revenant of the n3t clan.
Re: How to play Northerners
I was reading through this thread and I came across some acronyms I don't recognize. What is HI?
-
Yogibear
- Retired Developer
- Posts: 1086
- Joined: September 16th, 2005, 5:44 am
- Location: Hamburg, Germany
Re:
Let's see if i can help you a little here.Arcador wrote:I can't wait for the Northerns vs Rebels. Those pesky elves just squish me like a [censored] bug (if a bug can be [censored]).
...
Orcs are too narrow specialized: melee or ranged, until level 2 they do not have any balanced unit thus must of the time the enemy exploits this weak point.
So I am almost desperate for any advice...seems I am missing the big picture vs the rebels and slowly perish.
Rebels are pretty fragile units with low hitpoints. There good defense makes up for that, though. As you said, as northerners a classical fight mostly happens on elves conditions, that is they have 60+% terrain defense (and you have a hard time getting along with that unless you get very lucky).
Also, people always say "get them out of the forest", but they simply don't leave it
. The solution to that is: Make them leave it. Not with the classical approach but with the strength only northerners have: Ranged poison + high defense = assasin.The normal situation is that elvish fighters guard the more fragile units like shamans, mages and archers. If the night approaches, you take 2+ assasins and attack the shielding fighters. Chances are high that they both get poisoned and from that time on, time is working for you: Either they retreat or they keep shielding and die. Archers will think twice before attacking an assasin as well as shamans and mages at night. If rebels stay and fight, they get owned at night due to poison combined with heavy hitters. If they run, you got what you wanted: They leave the forest.
Despite their defense, assasins die fast to a combined attack. You will probably lose some. But most of the time it's worth the loss, because you turn the fight to be on your own conditions. Woses are an additional problem for assasins, you will need grunts and archers to deal with that.
This is not a trivial to play strategy. The matchup is balanced so rebels have an answer. Poison doesn't make it a no-brainer, but it evens the chances and gives you the opportunity to make the most out of it.
Smart persons learn out of their mistakes, wise persons learn out of others mistakes!
Re: How to play Northerners
I also find the Northerners vs Drakes match-up quite difficult. I've read that I should overpower drakes with numbers, but having equal number of villages, I don't seem to be able to recruit a lot more units than they are. And when there is a line of 4 or 5 drakes, it seems invincible, really giving me the creeps.
Re: How to play Northerners
Holy zombies!
I want to see what strategies you people use in Northerner vs Northerner fights.
Attack Spearman with( in order of preference ):
* Grunt / Wolf rider / Archer / Naga / Troll
Rationale:
- Anything with high HP and decent damage potential is enough to defeat a spearman.
- The Naga cannot kill the Spearman in one turn, but it will attack from the water most of the time which usually does not have hills near, allows for vastly superior in movement( retreat potential ), and it has higher HP.
- Assasins have a low chance of killing in one turn, most likely you want to use it for more important units, and is the 2nd unit with the lowest HP. If lady luck smiles at your enemy, you don't want your assasin to die trying to poison an spearman, do you?
- A fight between Spearmans is a gamble. Low HP makes *your* unit likely to die. Only recomendable in extremely favorable conditions for you.
Attack Naga with:
* Naga + another unit
- Only another Naga has the same defense in water, but fighting in equal conditions is risky. As a Northerner, you should already be used to attacking in packs anyways.
* Trap using zones of control and use poison + another unit
- If you can poison and trap a dodgy unit, it doesn't matters much how much it struggles. During the day, poison first and just wait for the night.
Attack Archers with:
* Grunts / Trolls / Naga
- Medium HP, no resistances and weak melee attack? Brute force all the way.
- You *could* poison it, but unless it's in a good defensive position, it's less risky and an Assasin better spent in less fragile units.
Attack Assasins with:
* Grunts / Naga
- Just wait till you finally hit the dodgy [censored].
- Better if you can attack with multiple units so you can off it before it poisons you.
* Trap with trolls
- Trolls will recover from the poison
- You want to finish assasins quickly before they poison more than a single unit( their initial attack ), and Trolls have less movement. Regeneration is far more important when you are defending, not attacking.
Attack Grunts with:
* Archers / assasins
- Grunts don't have a ranged attack.
- A single unit( specially the low-damage assasins ) won't kill the Grunt it's player refuses to retreat.
- If you can't kill it in one turn, it's best to kill the Grunts during the day, given how strong they are during the night.
* Naga( during the day ).
- The Grunt could get lucky and kill your Naga during the night.
Attack Wolf rider with:
* 2 or more Archers
- Wolf riders have no ranged attack.
- A single archer won't kill a Wolf rider.
* Grunts / Trolls
- It's likely that you'll take some damage
* Poison
- Sure, they can run away when poisoned, but in the worst case you don't have a hunter waiting to kill your weakened units. Unless it's your houses the ones they are after.
Right now I'm testing to figure out how to kill Trolls quickly. So far the only simple solution seems to be spam.
I want to see what strategies you people use in Northerner vs Northerner fights.
Attack Spearman with( in order of preference ):
* Grunt / Wolf rider / Archer / Naga / Troll
Rationale:
- Anything with high HP and decent damage potential is enough to defeat a spearman.
- The Naga cannot kill the Spearman in one turn, but it will attack from the water most of the time which usually does not have hills near, allows for vastly superior in movement( retreat potential ), and it has higher HP.
- Assasins have a low chance of killing in one turn, most likely you want to use it for more important units, and is the 2nd unit with the lowest HP. If lady luck smiles at your enemy, you don't want your assasin to die trying to poison an spearman, do you?
- A fight between Spearmans is a gamble. Low HP makes *your* unit likely to die. Only recomendable in extremely favorable conditions for you.
Attack Naga with:
* Naga + another unit
- Only another Naga has the same defense in water, but fighting in equal conditions is risky. As a Northerner, you should already be used to attacking in packs anyways.
* Trap using zones of control and use poison + another unit
- If you can poison and trap a dodgy unit, it doesn't matters much how much it struggles. During the day, poison first and just wait for the night.
Attack Archers with:
* Grunts / Trolls / Naga
- Medium HP, no resistances and weak melee attack? Brute force all the way.
- You *could* poison it, but unless it's in a good defensive position, it's less risky and an Assasin better spent in less fragile units.
Attack Assasins with:
* Grunts / Naga
- Just wait till you finally hit the dodgy [censored].
- Better if you can attack with multiple units so you can off it before it poisons you.
* Trap with trolls
- Trolls will recover from the poison
- You want to finish assasins quickly before they poison more than a single unit( their initial attack ), and Trolls have less movement. Regeneration is far more important when you are defending, not attacking.
Attack Grunts with:
* Archers / assasins
- Grunts don't have a ranged attack.
- A single unit( specially the low-damage assasins ) won't kill the Grunt it's player refuses to retreat.
- If you can't kill it in one turn, it's best to kill the Grunts during the day, given how strong they are during the night.
* Naga( during the day ).
- The Grunt could get lucky and kill your Naga during the night.
Attack Wolf rider with:
* 2 or more Archers
- Wolf riders have no ranged attack.
- A single archer won't kill a Wolf rider.
* Grunts / Trolls
- It's likely that you'll take some damage
* Poison
- Sure, they can run away when poisoned, but in the worst case you don't have a hunter waiting to kill your weakened units. Unless it's your houses the ones they are after.
Right now I'm testing to figure out how to kill Trolls quickly. So far the only simple solution seems to be spam.
Re: How to play Northerners
And to kill the darn Trolls...
* Assasin + Archer
- Trolls don't have a ranged attack.
- Prevents regen while dealing damage steadily.
- Specially useful with Trolls on mountains.
- The troll will be dead in 2, maybe 3 turns.
* 2 Archers( only at night )
- Again, Trolls have no ranged attack.
- Deals damage fast enough to kill in 2 turns, 3 if the third is Dawn.
- You'll be left with a weakened unit.
* Grunt + other unit
- A Pure and simple unfair fight.
- Better if that other unit is ranged, especially an Assasin.
Note:
- Grunts, your heavy damage dealers, suck against Trolls. Trolls and Grunts do exactly the same damage to each other, Grunts have 2 HP more, but Trolls have regen. Trolls beat Grunts at night or even in favorable terrain; you can pull it off with a Grunt on a village at night. But that's more defense than offense.
- 2 Assasins is not a good idea. You will kill the Troll, but it takes around 4 turns and you want your 2nd. Assasin somewhere else.
The Trolls seem to be the most dangerous unit for Northerners( an offensive faction ), as they are way, way better than anything else at defense, and are good enough for offense. Trolls are resistant against pierce and blade, and only the Assasin and Archer have alternatives to those.
Oh yeah, I forgot last time. Opinions?
* Assasin + Archer
- Trolls don't have a ranged attack.
- Prevents regen while dealing damage steadily.
- Specially useful with Trolls on mountains.
- The troll will be dead in 2, maybe 3 turns.
* 2 Archers( only at night )
- Again, Trolls have no ranged attack.
- Deals damage fast enough to kill in 2 turns, 3 if the third is Dawn.
- You'll be left with a weakened unit.
* Grunt + other unit
- A Pure and simple unfair fight.
- Better if that other unit is ranged, especially an Assasin.
Note:
- Grunts, your heavy damage dealers, suck against Trolls. Trolls and Grunts do exactly the same damage to each other, Grunts have 2 HP more, but Trolls have regen. Trolls beat Grunts at night or even in favorable terrain; you can pull it off with a Grunt on a village at night. But that's more defense than offense.
- 2 Assasins is not a good idea. You will kill the Troll, but it takes around 4 turns and you want your 2nd. Assasin somewhere else.
The Trolls seem to be the most dangerous unit for Northerners( an offensive faction ), as they are way, way better than anything else at defense, and are good enough for offense. Trolls are resistant against pierce and blade, and only the Assasin and Archer have alternatives to those.
Oh yeah, I forgot last time. Opinions?
Re: How to play Northerners
While I'm reminded, weren't trolls supposed to get a slight fire weakness?
"There are two kinds of old men in the world. The kind who didn't go to war and who say that they should have lived fast died young and left a handsome corpse and the old men who did go to war and who say that there is no such thing as a handsome corpse."
Re: How to play Northerners
No, they get a weakness vs arcane.