New to the forum (and mapmaking)

Discussion of all aspects of multiplayer development: unit balancing, map development, server development, and so forth.

Moderator: Forum Moderators

Notesurfer
Posts: 8
Joined: May 12th, 2008, 6:48 pm

New to the forum (and mapmaking)

Post by Notesurfer »

I've been playing Wesnoth off and on for a little while now with a friend of mine who introduced me to the game. I dabble in (read: am addicted to) mapmaking and whatnot, but I was wondering if, assuming there is forum activity, I could get some feedback on my maps and whatnot. Given that this is my first attempt at using a hex-based map system as well as a TBS (rather than RTS) I'd appreciate any criticism that y'all can offer.

UPDATED:
Kaloan Islands (2v2)
[map]border_size=1
usage=map

Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo
Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Wo , Wo , Wo
Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ss , Ww , Ss^Vm , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww
Ww , Ww , Ww , Ss^Vm , Ss , Ww , Ss , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Ww , Ww , Ss^Vm , Ss , Ss , Ss , Ss , Ss , Ss , Ww , Ww , Ww
Ww , Ww , Ss , Ss , Ss , Ss , Ss , Ss , Ss^Vm , Ww , Ww , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Ww , Ww , Ss , Ss , Ss , Ss , Ss , Ss , Ss , Ss , Ww , Ww , Ww
Ww , Ww , Ss , Ss , Chr , 4 Khr , Chr , Ss , Ss , Ww , Ww , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Ww , Ww , Ss , Ss , Ss , Chr , 3 Khr , Chr , Ss , Ss^Vm , Ww , Ww , Ww
Ww , Ss^Vm , Ss , Ss , Chr , Chr , Chr , Ss , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Wo , Wo , Wo , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ss , Ss , Chr , Chr , Chr , Ss , Ss , Ww , Ww , Ww
Ww , Ww , Ss , Ss , Ww , Re , Re , Ss , Re , Re , Ww , Ww , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Ww , Ww , Ss , Ss , Re , Re , Re , Ss , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww
Ww , Ww , Ss , Ss , Ww , Md , Md , Re , Re , Re , Ww , Ww , Ww , Wo , Wo , Wo , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Re , Re , Re , Re , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww
Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Md , Md , Re , Re , Re , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Re , Re , Re , Re , Re , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww
Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Md , Md , Re , Gs^Ft , Re , Re , Ww , Ww , Ww , Md , Ww , Ww , Ww , Re , Re , Gs^Ft , Re , Re , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww
Md^Xm , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ds , Gs^Vht , Gs^Ft , Gs^Ft , Gs^Ft , Re , Re , Md , Md , Md , Re , Re , Gs^Ft , Gs^Ft , Gs^Ft , Gs^Ft , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww
Ww , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Ww , Ww , Ds , Ww , Gs^Ft , Gs^Ft , Re , Re , Re , Re , Re , Re , Re , Ds , Gs^Vht , Gs , Ww , Md^Xm , Ww , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Md^Xm
Ww , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Ww , Md^Xm , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Md , Md , Re , Re , Re , Gs^Vht , Gs , Ww , Ds , Ww , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Mm , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Ww , Ww
Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Md , Md , Md , Re , Re , Re , Re , Ww , Ww , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww
Ww , Ww , Ww , Md , Md , Md , Dd^Vdt , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Ww , Ww , Md , Md , Re , Gs^Ft , Re , Ww , Ww , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww
Ww , Ww , Ww , Md , Ds , Ds , Md , Md , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Md , Md , Gs^Vht , Gs^Ft , Gs^Ft , Re , Md , Md , Md , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Ww , Ww , Ww
Ww , Ww , Ds , Md , Gs^Ft , Gs^Ft , Ww , Ww , Ww , Md^Xm , Ww , Re , Re , Gs^Ft , Re , Re , Md , Md , Md , Md , Ww , Md^Xm , Ww , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Ww
Ww , Ww , Ds , Gs^Ft , Gs^Ft , Gs^Ft , Ww , Ww , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Ww , Ww , Ce , Gs^Ft , Re , Re , Re , Md , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Md^Xm
Ww , Dd^Vdt , Ds , Gs^Ft , Ds , Ds , Ww , Ww , Md , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Ww , Ww , Ce , Ce , Re , Re , Re , Re , Ce , Ce , Ce , Ce , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww
Ww , Ds , Gs^Ft , Ds , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Md , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ce , Ke , Re , Re , Re , Re , Re , Re , Ke , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww
Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ds , Md , Md , Md , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Re , Re , Re , Re , Md , Md , Re , Ds , Ww , Ww , Ww
Wo , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ds , Gs^Vht , Re , Re , Md , Ww , Ww , Wo , Wo , Wo , Ww , Md , Md , Md , Re , Re , Md , Re , Re , Gs^Vht , Ds , Ww , Ww
Wo , Wo , Wo , Ww , Ww , Gs^Ft , Gs^Ft , Re , Hd , Hd , Ww , Ww , Ww , Wo , Wo , Ww , Md , Md , Gs^Vht , Re , Re , Re , Gs^Ft , Gs^Ft , Gs^Ft , Ds , Ww , Ww
Wo , Wo , Wo , Ww , Ww , Gs^Ft , Md , Hd , Ww , Ww , Gs , Gs , Re , Wo , Ww , Ww , Ds , Md , Ds , Re , Ww^Bw/ , Re , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww
Ww , Wo , Wo , Ww , Md , Md , Md , Ww , Mm^Xm , Ww , Re , Gs^Vht , Gs^Ft , Ww , Md , Ds , Gs^Vht , Ds , Md , Re , Md , Ww , Md , Ww , Ww , Ww , Wo , Ww
Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Md , Md , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Ww , Gs^Ft , Gs^Ft , Re , Md , Md , Re , Re , Re , Re , Re , Md , Md , Md , Ww , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo
Ww , Ww , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Ww , Mm , Ww , Ww , Re , Gs^Ft , Re , Ww^Bw\ , Ds , Re , Re , Re , Gs^Vht , Re , Md , Md , Ww , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo
Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Mm , Mm , Md , Ww , Ds , Ds , Gs^Ft , Re^Uf , Re , Gs^Ft , Re , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Re , Ww^Bw\ , Gs , Ww , Ww , Ww , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo
Mm^Xm , Ww , Ww , Ww , Md , Ww , Ds , Ww , Re , Re , Re , Re , Ds , Ds , Re , Ww , Ww , Ww , Re , Re , Re , Ww , Ww , Ww , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo
Ww , Ww , Md , Md , Re , Re , Re , Ww^Bw/ , Ds , Re , Re , Md , Md , Ds , Re , Re , Re , Re , Re , Re , Re , Gs^Ft , Ww , Ww , Ww , Wo , Wo , Wo
Ww , Ww , Ww , Md , Re , Re , Re , Ww , Rp , Rp , Ce , Md , Md , Md , Re , Gs^Ft , Gs^Ft , Re , Gs^Ft , Re , Re , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Wo , Wo , Wo
Ww , Ww , Gs^Ft , Gs^Ft , Rp , Re , Md , Ww , Rp , Ce , Mm , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Ww , Ww , Gs^Ft , Gs^Vht , Gs^Ft , Ww , Gs^Ft , Ds , Ds , Ds , Ds , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww
Ww , Ww , Re , Gs^Ft , Rp , Re , Md , Md , Re , Ce , Ce , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Ww , Mm , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ds , Ds , Ds , Gs^Ft , Ww , Ww , Ww
Ww , Ww , Gs , Gs^Vht , Ce , Rp , Rp , Md , Re , Re , Gs , Ke , Gs^Ft , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Ww , Mm^Xm , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Gs^Ft , Gs^Ft , Gs^Ft , Ww , Ww
Ww , Ww , Ww , Ce , Md , Ce , Ce , Re , Re , Re , Gs^Ft , Gs^Vht , Gs , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Ww , Mm , Ww , Ww , Gs^Ft , Gs^Ft , Gs^Ft , Ww , Ww
Mm^Xm , Ww , Ww , Ww , Md , Md , Ke , Re , Re , Re , Re , Gs , Re , Re , Re , Ww , Ww , Ww , Mm , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Dd^Vdt , Ww , Ww
Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Mm , Ww , Md , Md , Md , Re , Ww , Md , Ww , Re , Md , Re , Re , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Mm , Mm , Mm^Xm , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww
Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Md , Md , Re , Re , Re , Ww , Gs , Ww , Ww , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Mm , Ww , Ww , Ww
Wo , Mm , Wo , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Ww , Md , Md , Md , Re , Re , Re , Re , Gs^Vht , Gs , Ww , Ww , Ww , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Mm , Ww
Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Ww , Mm , Ww , Mm^Xm , Md , Ww , Re , Md , Re , Re , Re , Re , Re , Re , Re , Gs , Ww , Ww , Mm , Mm , Mm , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Ww
Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Ww , Ww , Ww , Md , Md , Md , Re , Re , Re , Re , Re , Re , Re , Re , Re , Re , Md , Ww , Ww , Mm , Ww , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Ww
Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Ww , Ww , Ww , Md , Ww , Md , Re , Re , Re , Re , Gs , Gs^Vht , Re , Re , Re , Md , Md , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Mm^Xm
Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Md , Md , Re , Re , Md , Md , Ww , Gs , Re , Re , Re , Md , Md , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww
Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Ww , Ww , Ss , Ww , Re , Re , Re , Re , Md , Md , Ww , Ww , Ww , Re , Re , Re , Re , Re , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww
Wo , Wo , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ss , Ss , Re , Re , Re , Re , Ww , Md , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Re , Re , Re , Re , Ss , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww
Wo , Wo , Ww , Ww , Ss^Vm , Ss , Chr , 1 Khw , Chr , Re , Ss , Ss , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ss , Re , Chr , 2 Khw , Chr , Ss , Ss^Vm , Ww , Ww , Ww
Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ss , Ss , Chr , Chr , Chr , Ss , Ss , Ss^Vm , Ww , Ww , Wo , Wo , Wo , Ww , Ss , Ss , Chr , Chr , Chr , Ss , Ss , Ww , Ww , Ww
Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ss , Ss , Ss , Ss , Ss , Ww , Ww , Ww , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Ww , Ww , Ss , Ss , Ss , Ss , Ss , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww
Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ss , Ss^Vm , Ss , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Ww , Ww , Ss^Vm , Ss , Ss , Ss , Ss , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww
Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ss , Ss^Vm , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww
Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww[/map]
Last edited by Notesurfer on May 14th, 2008, 4:16 am, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
anakayub
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 520
Joined: May 3rd, 2007, 12:44 pm
Location: Malaysia
Contact:

Re: New to the forum (and mapmaking)

Post by anakayub »

I'm just commenting a bit (considering that it's already/only 9hrs without reply :wink: ); I'm not the best person to comment on this. However, do wait for someone like Doc/F8 Binds etc., they have authority on this.

Your map seems to lack variety in terrain. A good map should have terrain which is good for all factions, meaning that it should have a healthy mix of forests and hills/mountains/sand (not so much of the last one though).

This map has a lot of water! I don't know whether it's a good thing or not in your map in particular, but I think there are many areas where land units will simply be blocked by simple placements of mermans/nagas.

I'm not too fond of the villages at the far left side in the water. Drakes and Knalgans will have difficulty capturing and holding those villages. I think the same would go to the Undead, as the bat is generally weak.
Take a breath.
nataS
Posts: 166
Joined: January 28th, 2008, 3:21 pm

Re: New to the forum (and mapmaking)

Post by nataS »

As already pointed out by anakayub, only loyalist, rebels and northerners have a real water unit. Knalgan have to do with very expensive gryphons, undead won't get far with ghosts, and drakes will be a complete drama. Water can be nice to complement your map but large quantities of water in wesnoth make a map unbalanced. When it comes to the land area, it's all flat, favoring loyalists and some forest for rebels. But no hills/mountains for knalgan factions at area's where the battles take place.
User avatar
Wintermute
Inactive Developer
Posts: 840
Joined: March 23rd, 2006, 10:28 pm
Location: On IRC as "happygrue" at: #wesnoth-mp

Re: New to the forum (and mapmaking)

Post by Wintermute »

One very simple tip is to ask yourself "what would I recruit on this map?", and if the answer is "pretty much one type of unit", then you might want to make some changes. After all, how much fun would it be to play every game on the map only recruiting merman? This also holds for things like "pretty much just elves" or "pretty much just dwarves".

Of course, if your intent is to create a water map, and you are indending only to use different eras on it that is different. But in that case, you should probably indicate such in your post. :wink:
"I just started playing this game a few days ago, and I already see some balance issues."
Notesurfer
Posts: 8
Joined: May 12th, 2008, 6:48 pm

Re: New to the forum (and mapmaking)

Post by Notesurfer »

Perhaps replacing key hexes with mountains/hills would help to even out the factional advantages, yes?

My (excessive) use of water in this map was primarily meant to be aesthetic, so I don't have an issue with replacing some water hexes with other types of terrain. d-:

Okay, here is the map with some minor, but hopefully key, adjustments:

[map]border_size=1
usage=map

Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo
Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Wo , Wo , Wo
Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ss , Ww , Ss^Vm , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww
Ww , Ww , Ww , Ss^Vm , Ss , Ww , Ss , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Ww , Ww , Ss^Vm , Ss , Ss , Ss , Ss , Ss , Ss , Ww , Ww , Ww
Ww , Ww , Ss , Ss , Ss , Ss , Ss , Ss , Ss^Vm , Ww , Ww , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Ww , Ww , Ss , Ss , Ss , Ss , Ss , Ss , Ss , Ss , Ww , Ww , Ww
Ww , Ww , Ss , Ss , Chr , 4 Khr , Chr , Ss , Ss , Ww , Ww , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Ww , Ww , Ss , Ss , Ss , Chr , 3 Khr , Chr , Ss , Ss^Vm , Ww , Ww , Ww
Ww , Ss^Vm , Ss , Ss , Chr , Chr , Chr , Ss , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Wo , Wo , Wo , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ss , Ss , Chr , Chr , Chr , Ss , Ss , Ww , Ww , Ww
Ww , Ww , Ss , Ss , Ww , Re , Re , Ss , Re , Re , Ww , Ww , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Ww , Ww , Ss , Ss , Re , Re , Re , Ss , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww
Ww , Ww , Ss , Ss , Ww , Md , Md , Re , Re , Re , Ww , Ww , Ww , Wo , Wo , Wo , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Re , Re , Re , Re , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww
Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Md , Md , Re , Re , Re , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Re , Re , Re , Re , Re , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww
Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Md , Md , Re , Gs^Ft , Re , Re , Ww , Ww , Ww , Md , Ww , Ww , Ww , Re , Re , Gs^Ft , Re , Re , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww
Md^Xm , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Gs^Vht , Gs^Ft , Gs^Ft , Gs^Ft , Re , Re , Md , Md , Md , Re , Re , Gs^Ft , Gs^Ft , Gs^Ft , Gs^Ft , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww
Ww , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Gs^Ft , Gs^Ft , Re , Re , Re , Re , Re , Re , Re , Ww , Gs^Vht , Ww , Ww , Md^Xm , Ww , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Md^Xm
Ww , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Ww , Md^Xm , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Md , Md , Re , Re , Re , Gs^Vht , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Mm , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Ww , Ww
Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Md , Md , Md , Re , Re , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww
Ww , Ww , Ww , Md , Md , Md , Dd^Vdt , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Ww , Ww , Md , Md , Re , Gs^Ft , Re , Ww , Ww , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww
Ww , Ww , Ww , Md , Ds , Ds , Md , Md , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Md , Md , Gs^Vht , Gs^Ft , Gs^Ft , Re , Md , Md , Md , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Ww , Ww , Ww
Ww , Ww , Ds , Md , Gs^Ft , Gs^Ft , Ww , Ww , Ww , Md^Xm , Ww , Ww , Ww , Gs^Ft , Re , Re , Md , Md , Md , Md , Ww , Md^Xm , Ww , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Ww
Ww , Ww , Ds , Gs^Ft , Gs^Ft , Gs^Ft , Ww , Ww , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Ww , Ww , Ww , Gs^Ft , Re , Re , Re , Md , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Md^Xm
Ww , Dd^Vdt , Ds , Gs^Ft , Ds , Ds , Ww , Ww , Md , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Ww , Ww , Ce , Ce , Re , Re , Re , Re , Ww , Ce , Ce , Ce , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww
Ww , Ds , Gs^Ft , Ds , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Md , Md^Xm , Md^Xm , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ce , Ke , Re , Re , Re , Re , Re , Re , Ke , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww
Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Md , Md , Md , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Re , Re , Re , Re , Md , Md , Re , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww
Wo , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Gs^Vht , Re , Re , Md , Ww , Ww , Wo , Wo , Wo , Ww , Md , Md , Md , Re , Re , Md , Re , Re , Gs^Vht , Ww , Ww , Ww
Wo , Wo , Wo , Ww , Ww , Gs^Ft , Gs^Ft , Re , Hd , Hd , Ww , Ww , Ww , Wo , Wo , Ww , Md , Md , Gs^Vht , Re , Re , Re , Gs^Ft , Gs^Ft , Gs^Ft , Ww , Ww , Ww
Wo , Wo , Wo , Ww , Ww , Gs^Ft , Md , Hd , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Wo , Ww , Ww , Ww , Md , Ds , Ww , Ww^Bw/ , Re , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww
Ww , Wo , Wo , Ww , Md , Md , Md , Ww , Mm^Xm , Ww , Ww , Gs^Vht , Gs^Ft , Ww , Md , Ww , Gs^Vht , Ww , Md , Re , Md , Ww , Md , Ww , Ww , Ww , Wo , Ww
Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Md , Md , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Ww , Gs^Ft , Gs^Ft , Re , Md , Md , Re , Re , Re , Re , Re , Md , Md , Md , Ww , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo
Ww , Ww , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Ww , Mm , Ww , Ww , Ce , Gs^Ft , Re , Ww^Bw\ , Ds , Re , Re , Re , Gs^Vht , Re , Md , Md , Ww , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo
Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Mm , Mm , Md , Ww , Ds , Ds , Ce , Ce , Re , Ke , Re , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Re , Ww^Bw\ , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo
Mm^Xm , Ww , Ww , Ww , Md , Ww , Ds , Ww , Re , Re , Re , Re , Ds , Ds , Re , Ww , Ww , Ww , Re , Re , Ke , Ww , Ww , Ww , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo
Ww , Ww , Md , Md , Re , Re , Re , Ww^Bw/ , Ds , Re , Ww , Md , Md , Ds , Re , Re , Re , Re , Re , Re , Ce , Ce , Ww , Ww , Ww , Wo , Wo , Wo
Ww , Ww , Ww , Md , Re , Re , Re , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Md , Md , Md , Re , Gs^Ft , Gs^Ft , Re , Gs^Ft , Re , Ce , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Wo , Wo , Wo
Ww , Ww , Gs^Ft , Gs^Ft , Re , Re , Md , Ww , Ww , Ww , Mm , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Ww , Ww , Gs^Ft , Gs^Vht , Gs^Ft , Ww , Gs^Ft , Ds , Ds , Ds , Ds , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww
Ww , Ww , Ww , Gs^Ft , Re , Re , Md , Md , Ww , Ww , Ww , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Ww , Mm , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ds , Ds , Ds , Gs^Ft , Ww , Ww , Ww
Ww , Ww , Ww , Gs^Vht , Re , Re , Re , Md , Re , Ww , Gs^Ft , Ww , Ww , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Ww , Mm^Xm , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Gs^Ft , Gs^Ft , Gs^Ft , Ww , Ww
Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Md , Re , Re , Re , Re , Re , Gs^Ft , Gs^Vht , Gs^Ft , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Ww , Mm , Ww , Ww , Gs^Ft , Gs^Ft , Gs^Ft , Ww , Ww
Mm^Xm , Ww , Ww , Ww , Md , Md , Md , Re , Re , Re , Re , Gs^Ft , Re , Re , Re , Ww , Ww , Ww , Mm , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Dd^Vdt , Ww , Ww
Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Mm , Ww , Md , Md , Md , Re , Ww , Md , Ww , Re , Md , Re , Re , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Mm , Mm , Mm^Xm , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww
Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Md , Md , Re , Re , Re , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Mm , Ww , Ww , Ww
Wo , Mm , Wo , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Ww , Md , Md , Md , Re , Re , Re , Re , Gs^Vht , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Mm , Ww
Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Ww , Mm , Ww , Mm^Xm , Md , Ww , Re , Md , Re , Re , Re , Re , Re , Re , Re , Ww , Ww , Ww , Mm , Mm , Mm , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Ww
Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Ww , Ww , Ww , Md , Md , Md , Re , Re , Re , Re , Re , Re , Re , Re , Re , Re , Md , Ww , Ww , Mm , Ww , Mm^Xm , Mm^Xm , Ww
Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Ww , Ww , Ww , Md , Ww , Md , Re , Re , Re , Re , Ww , Gs^Vht , Re , Re , Re , Md , Md , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Mm^Xm
Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Md , Md , Re , Re , Md , Md , Ww , Ww , Re , Re , Re , Md , Md , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww
Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Ww , Ww , Ss , Ww , Re , Re , Re , Re , Md , Md , Ww , Ww , Ww , Re , Re , Re , Re , Re , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww
Wo , Wo , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ss , Ss , Re , Re , Re , Re , Ww , Md , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Re , Re , Re , Re , Ss , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww
Wo , Wo , Ww , Ww , Ss^Vm , Ss , Chr , 1 Khw , Chr , Re , Ss , Ss , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ss , Re , Chr , 2 Khw , Chr , Ss , Ss^Vm , Ww , Ww , Ww
Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ss , Ss , Chr , Chr , Chr , Ss , Ss , Ss^Vm , Ww , Ww , Wo , Wo , Wo , Ww , Ss , Ss , Chr , Chr , Chr , Ss , Ss , Ww , Ww , Ww
Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ss , Ss , Ss , Ss , Ss , Ww , Ww , Ww , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Ww , Ww , Ss , Ss , Ss , Ss , Ss , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww
Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ss , Ss^Vm , Ss , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Ww , Ww , Ss^Vm , Ss , Ss , Ss , Ss , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww
Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ss , Ss^Vm , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww
Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Wo , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww , Ww[/map]

Things to note:
My primary goal was to even things out factionally. My intention is *not* to give an undue tactical advantage to factions with water units; however, I *do* want to create a map that is aesthetically similar to a series of islands. For this reason I minimized, but did not obliterate, the watery sections of the map. Many of those parts are no longer interconnected and require one's water units to cross a short series of mountains or land before returning to the sea.

I think the point about mountains was a good one, and one that I am prone to forget given that I rarely play as the Knalgan Alliance or Drakes. I haven't yet playtested this map, but I plan on doing so sometime this evening. Hopefully I will discover which races have which advantages, and may act accordingly. Thank you all for your help - any additional comments are welcome.
User avatar
Wintermute
Inactive Developer
Posts: 840
Joined: March 23rd, 2006, 10:28 pm
Location: On IRC as "happygrue" at: #wesnoth-mp

Re: New to the forum (and mapmaking)

Post by Wintermute »

Notesurfer wrote:I think the point about mountains was a good one, and one that I am prone to forget given that I rarely play as the Knalgan Alliance or Drakes. I haven't yet playtested this map, but I plan on doing so sometime this evening. Hopefully I will discover which races have which advantages, and may act accordingly. Thank you all for your help - any additional comments are welcome.
Yes, playtesting will probably help you a lot. :)

I think if you would like a map that has a lot of water on it, but without favoring water units, you might try making the water hexes less important. One way of doing that would be to take away most of the water hexes that are next to villages. Since otherwise, you would by water units to attack and help defend those key point. Also be careful in general about using too much of one type of terrian in one place. True of water, forest or mountian especially, since otherwise you will create a little zone that strongly favors certian factions.
"I just started playing this game a few days ago, and I already see some balance issues."
Notesurfer
Posts: 8
Joined: May 12th, 2008, 6:48 pm

Re: New to the forum (and mapmaking)

Post by Notesurfer »

I'd be interested to know if I've adequately addressed the issue anakayub brought up.
anakayub wrote: I'm not too fond of the villages at the far left side in the water. Drakes and Knalgans will have difficulty capturing and holding those villages. I think the same would go to the Undead, as the bat is generally weak.
Were you referring to the villages around 2,19 that are on a detached bit of land? If so, what sort of terrain would benefit the races that you said would have a severe disadvantage on that part? Were you more referring to the increased exposure to water hexes?
Notesurfer
Posts: 8
Joined: May 12th, 2008, 6:48 pm

Re: New to the forum (and mapmaking)

Post by Notesurfer »

My apologies for the double post. If anyone has the patience/time to take a look at another map for me I would be much obliged.

My intention with this map was to create something that closely resembled the grand expanse of frozen forest that is the Boreal forest, thus the title. Using the advice I was given regarding my previously posted map, I attempted to shift the weight away from the forests, and to vary the terrain as much as possible without compromising the vision I had for the map. Critiques welcomed.

Unfortunately it seems that my map is too large to be posted using map tags, so I have uploaded it as a txt.
nataS
Posts: 166
Joined: January 28th, 2008, 3:21 pm

Re: New to the forum (and mapmaking)

Post by nataS »

Here is some extra information on how to make a good multiplayer map, in case you had not come across it yet: Guide for designing MP maps.
One extra note on the player starts. It would be more fair to have 1 and 4 at south, and 2 and 3 at north. Otherwise you will give team one an advantage at start.

I have a screenshot of your newest creation:
Image
Click for high resolution

May I suggest a fitting name? How about "rebel domination" :mrgreen:
It looks great and surely has potential, but you really have to chop some trees for it to be balanced.
I also think it being too big to be posted using map tags is a bad sign, it's over four times bigger than King of the Hill, a map that usually takes many hours to finish.
Notesurfer
Posts: 8
Joined: May 12th, 2008, 6:48 pm

Re: New to the forum (and mapmaking)

Post by Notesurfer »

XD Understood. What about the player advantages - how would moving the start points around give one team an advantage (aside from the minimal player 1 advantage that exists regardless of point location)?
nataS
Posts: 166
Joined: January 28th, 2008, 3:21 pm

Re: New to the forum (and mapmaking)

Post by nataS »

If you let all team one players move first, they will be able to cover a larger part of the map first, usually allowing them to take more villages as well. In a two versus two player map you can easily counter this with the setup where team one makes a move first, then the two players from team two, and finally the second player from team one.

The guide on map creation I linked to in my previous post states the following about it:
7. Player 1 advantage. (More applicable to 1v1). Player one moves first, and so is potentially ahead of player 2. Therefore, completely symmetrical maps are generally to be avoided, although you will see that some default maps are close to symmetrical (see Den of Onis). This is OK because if the starting keeps are far enough away from each other, and villages are not too out on a limb, then the player 1 advantage is negligible, as by the time combat begins, both sides have had enough time to arrange their units and grab their villages. Very good terrain, keeps and villages are generally not placed in the middle of the map such that player one can get to them all first.

To offset player 1 advantage (if it is significant), you can use village placement to make player 1 run a bit further, or maybe backwards a bit in order to grab all his villages. This is a fine-tuning thing, I suspect, and hard to get right without playtesting. You can also place 'slowing' terrain to inhibit his movement, although you don't want to disadvantage player one for the whole game, just the first couple of moves, so maybe not too much of that.
Among that many other helpful things, so do read it! :wink:
Velensk
Multiplayer Contributor
Posts: 3991
Joined: January 24th, 2007, 12:56 am

Re: New to the forum (and mapmaking)

Post by Velensk »

A note on that map natas is showing, I can tell even without playing it that all that snow will lead to problems. The snow limites the mobility of most units so that they will be forced into the lanes of road, and thus most of the fighting will be just up and down a narrow strip of land, which tends to be stalematish, and unexciting, even it it wern't being made unbalanced by the shear number of trees on the edge of this strip which give elves and advantage. The center castles would speed things up were it not for the incredible amount of time it would take to get any leader to them.
"There are two kinds of old men in the world. The kind who didn't go to war and who say that they should have lived fast died young and left a handsome corpse and the old men who did go to war and who say that there is no such thing as a handsome corpse."
Notesurfer
Posts: 8
Joined: May 12th, 2008, 6:48 pm

Re: New to the forum (and mapmaking)

Post by Notesurfer »

@nataS, I did read the guide you linked to, I just wasn't sure what you were inferring in the context of a 3v3 map. I guess what you're saying is that, rather than having players 1-3 on one team and 4-6 on another I should mix it up so that, according to the order of the turns, no one team will have an advantage. Is this correct?

@Velens, would you suggest reducing the trees directly adjacent to the road? What would you do to even out the factional advantages? Perhaps an additional set of keeps is in order . . .
User avatar
turin
Lord of the East
Posts: 11662
Joined: January 11th, 2004, 7:17 pm
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: New to the forum (and mapmaking)

Post by turin »

Notesurfer wrote:@Velens, would you suggest reducing the trees directly adjacent to the road? What would you do to even out the factional advantages? Perhaps an additional set of keeps is in order . . .
Do you see how much forest there is on that map? You need to cut the amount of forest in half, at least, I would say. And add more hills and mountains.
For I am Turin Turambar - Master of Doom, by doom mastered. On permanent Wesbreak. Will not respond to private messages. Sorry!
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm
User avatar
Aethaeryn
Translator
Posts: 1553
Joined: September 15th, 2007, 10:21 pm
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, USA

Re: New to the forum (and mapmaking)

Post by Aethaeryn »

Notesurfer wrote:Things to note:
My primary goal was to even things out factionally. My intention is *not* to give an undue tactical advantage to factions with water units; however, I *do* want to create a map that is aesthetically similar to a series of islands. For this reason I minimized, but did not obliterate, the watery sections of the map. Many of those parts are no longer interconnected and require one's water units to cross a short series of mountains or land before returning to the sea.
One key problem: Only naga can travel on mountains, mermen can't.
Aethaeryn (User Page)
Wiki Moderator (wiki)
Latin Translator [wiki=Latin Translation](wiki)[/wiki]
Maintainer of Thunderstone Era (wiki) and Aethaeryn's Maps [wiki=Aethaeryn's Maps](wiki)[/wiki]
Post Reply