Desert Elves

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irrevenant
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Re: Desert Elves

Post by irrevenant »

Mist wrote:A 'save the wings' movement? :P
:)
Mist wrote:
irrevenant wrote:What really matters is what Wesnoth means by "faerie"
And if that's to be the only reason for constraining the options I have for further development of both the campaign and the elves I'll detach UtBS from Wesnoth. It's different enough to warant it's own world, and any connections were vague at best.
I think that would be a shame. UtBS is clearly implied to be a distant future version of Wesnoth.
Mist wrote:And I disagree with the winged part, as I'd do if the issue was ever discussed on the mailing list, and suprise suprise, it wasn't.
Yes, that annoys me, too. Personally I'd like to see most development discussion take place in (a non-user postable area of) the forums. Quite often someone posts something only to have a Dev pop up and say "Oh no, that's incompatible with <thing we never mentioned we were working on>" or "Yes, we're already working on it". More openness in the development process would be great. It would save both regular users and Devs a lot of wasted posts.
Mist wrote:And please don't talk precedents to me, having one sun was also a precedent, precedents are there to create or ignore.
The setting made sure to explain in detail how Wesnoth went from having one sun to two.

An option I suggested earlier that seems to have fallen by the wayside is to change the Elves and make sure to justify it. All you have to do is write something into the story (and maybe the unit descriptions) about how their link to the faerie realm was weakened by the great shattering.

Again, I'd use this opportunity to take them in a different direction - an elemental earth magic route seems appropriate. If you lose the wings I'd also lose the flying and replace it with a different magical focus. In that case I'd definitely include something in the description about how "The Shyde's natural link to the realm of faerie is tenuous these days and they have turned to other sources of magic to survive".

ie. Either (a) changing their nature minimally, or (b) changing their nature dramatically (with justification) rings more true than just taking away the wings and keeping the stats basically the same.
Mist wrote:UtBS always was the most inovative and out of the box campaign in the whole mainline, I don't think Quartex gave a damn about Wesnoth conventions or world assumptions when he wrote it and I'm going to keep i that way regardless of whether you like it or not.
The Wesnoth setting was still being established at that point. (In fact, I think the Wesnoth history document may have initially been prompted by the release of UtBS).

Which isn't, of course, to say that you can't be innovative nowadays, just that you either (a) have to be consistent with the established setting, (b) justify changes from the established setting or (c) use a different setting.

I actually lean towards #b, as noted above, and think #c would be a great shame.
Mist wrote:I am not going to change the grand picture just because six months after I started drawing out plans somebody who didn't seem to care earlier jumps in and tells me it's not Wesnoth without any solid argument to back that statement up.
Entirely up to you. I just calls it as I sees it. It's hard to make a "solid argument" in matters of feel.

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Mist
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Re: Desert Elves

Post by Mist »

Ah, the sweet voice of Reason :D Guess what, suddenly we're speaking the same language ;)

I never, up to this point, considered detaching UtBS and Wesnoth. But I'll do it if I find it chains me down to much. And yes, it'd be a shame.
I also wanted to justify the change, I actuly do have such justification in some detail (on various scraps of paper I hold my notes on), if I didn't mention that earlier I should (maybe I tought it was implied). In short they lost the heritage of power (lack of the sorceress line) replacing it with elemental magic of earth (mostly sand) and air (wind) and during centuries under influence of false Eloh they moved their faerie ties from light realm to dark one (and that cost them wings).
The reason I'm requesting graphics before introducing changes and explanations is that mainline campaign doesn't have the luxury of leaving halffinished things for indeterminable amount of time. Once I get the art, I'll introduce the changes. And reasoning behind them.

Still, good to have had this discusion ending in a civil manner. I'll try to get intersted people a bit more involved and informed in the future. That is when I finaly get my laptop back from repairs, that bloody thing is taking forever to come back.
Somewhere, between the sacred silence and sleep.
Disorder.

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irrevenant
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Re: Desert Elves

Post by irrevenant »

Mist wrote:Ah, the sweet voice of Reason :D Guess what, suddenly we're speaking the same language ;)
Yay! :)
Mist wrote:The reason I'm requesting graphics before introducing changes and explanations is that mainline campaign doesn't have the luxury of leaving halffinished things for indeterminable amount of time. Once I get the art, I'll introduce the changes. And reasoning behind them.
If possible it'd be good to have the changes and background early. It'd serve as a foundation for people to work on the art.

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Urs
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Re: Desert Elves

Post by Urs »

Ya know, Shydes and Sylphs aren't the only examples of faerie in the Wesnoth world:
Wose Unit Description wrote:The elves are the source of most of this knowledge; they know that these beings are not descended from trees, despite the similarity in form, and they know that a wose is more closely tied to the faerie world than the elves themselves, though in a different way

Anyway, I began working on a "whirlwind legs" Shyde. I hope nobody minds. Will be up later tonight.

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Federalist marshal
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Re: Desert Elves

Post by Federalist marshal »

I look forward to what Urs makes! Hopefully it'll settle the whole argument.

I've (tried) to cover the torso of the Marshal with a layer of leather (I don't think I'll keep that though), changed to position of his sword, and placed the banner on his back.
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Urs
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Re: Desert Elves

Post by Urs »

Federalist Marshal wrote:I look forward to what Urs makes! Hopefully it'll settle the whole argument.
Thanks, and yeah, hopefully.

I'm not quite sure how done I am- comments would be really useful.

This is the direction she's going in, though:
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Wingless Shyde! OMZG!
Wingless Shyde! OMZG!
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Federalist marshal
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Re: Desert Elves

Post by Federalist marshal »

Good idea, but your style clashes with mine...

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Iris
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Re: Desert Elves

Post by Iris »

And with the entire mainline. If you cannot fix it, perhaps I should give her a try (no animating, sorry).
Author of the unofficial UtBS sequels Invasion from the Unknown and After the Storm (now available for Wesnoth 1.14).

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Urs
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Re: Desert Elves

Post by Urs »

I get that a lot. :lol2:

Perhaps I'll give her a try later. If nothing's up by Tuesday, go ahead.

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Federalist marshal
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Re: Desert Elves

Post by Federalist marshal »

New Marshal. This one I like best.
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Federalist marshal
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Re: Desert Elves

Post by Federalist marshal »

Marshal attack frame. Might need some polishing...
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Federalist marshal
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Re: Desert Elves

Post by Federalist marshal »

Improved attack frame, and defend frame.
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Federalist marshal
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Re: Desert Elves

Post by Federalist marshal »

Leading frame.

And exactly who's doing what with the druid now?
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Urs
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Re: Desert Elves

Post by Urs »

I don't really care anymore. Someone else can work on it - Megane for style consistency and all, if he feels like it. You can do it too, or Shadow Master.

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irrevenant
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Re: Desert Elves

Post by irrevenant »

I don't think there was any contention over the druid, just over the shyde and sylph.

Apparently the unit is now an Elvish priestess, so something like this maybe?

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