More new units...

Post by **Dave** » July 3rd, 2004, 1:59 pm

I tend to agree that I don't like creatures that are 'the head of an X and a body of a Y!'.

I do think that the concept of a gryphon is somewhat silly. It has the head of an eagle, and the body of a lion.....but how does the body of a lion really give it an advantage? The powerful thing to me about a lion is its head and front paws. The thing that makes a gryphon powerful to me is simply that having the body of a lion means the eagle-front must be large enough to be in proportion with the body of a lion, and so essentially we have a very large eagle.

In fact the main reason gryphons were chosen was because I think the name sounds cool, and because they are easily identified as great beasts of the air. [1]

Also, even if a concept sounds silly, to me it has alot more 'credibility' if it's derived from classical mythology rather than our own bizarre invention.

Yes, we do derive alot of inspiration from Tolkien, but we don't need to limit ourselves to Tolkien. Including things from other mythologies is okay.

If we wanted to replace gryphons, I think that rocs would be the most appropriate thing to replace them with, rather than 'Giant Eagles'.

I don't like the idea of 'sea elves', but 'ice elves' are okay, as long as it simply means regular elves that have lived in tundra for a long time, and have adapted to using fighting techniques that are appropriate in tundra.

I don't really have a problem with unicorns, if used appropriately, although it's hard to imagine them being used well in Wesnoth (I think an RPG would be more appropriate). I think unicorns should be mysterious beasts, that have some special power. I definitely don't think you should be able to recruit unicorns into your army.

David

[1] If you think this reasoning sounds silly, you should consider that it's the kind of reasoning for most units that are in Wesnoth.

Roel · Post by **Roel** » July 3rd, 2004, 2:19 pm

can we have pegasus then?

Post by **Dave** » July 3rd, 2004, 2:25 pm

Roel wrote:can we have pegasus then?

Possibly, but I don't really see the point. We already have a flying mount, why do we need more?

David

Elvish_Pillager · Post by **Elvish_Pillager** » July 3rd, 2004, 2:34 pm

Dave wrote:
Roel wrote:can we have pegasus then?
Possibly, but I don't really see the point. We already have a flying mount, why do we need more?

David

So the Loyalists get a flying unit. Though, this isn't the best idea.

Post by **Dave** » July 3rd, 2004, 2:51 pm

Elvish Pillager wrote:
Dave wrote: Possibly, but I don't really see the point. We already have a flying mount, why do we need more?

David
So the Loyalists get a flying unit. Though, this isn't the best idea.

I don't see why every faction should get a flying unit. Some have them, some don't.

David

Post by **Sangel** » July 3rd, 2004, 2:56 pm

I don't think we need a Pegasus unit, but a hero riding one might be cool - Bellerophon, anyone?

Elvish_Pillager · Post by **Elvish_Pillager** » July 3rd, 2004, 3:02 pm

Why do Loyalists have Nagas, anyway?

MadMax · Post by **MadMax** » July 3rd, 2004, 3:28 pm

Elvish Pillager wrote:Why do Loyalists have Nagas, anyway?

Good question. Aren't nagas evil?

Post by **turin** » July 3rd, 2004, 9:12 pm

MadMax wrote:
Elvish Pillager wrote:Why do Loyalists have Nagas, anyway?
Good question. Aren't nagas evil?

there is no evil. only chaotic.

but yes, they are.

we should not have any units that are supposed to be rare beasts and/or one-of-a-kind, ie medusa, pegasus, unicorn, and if we do, they should only be used for one-time enemies, like the yeti.

thats why i hate drakes.

MadMax · Post by **MadMax** » July 3rd, 2004, 11:35 pm

turin wrote:thats why i hate drakes.

I see. That's why you didn't return my PM?

Post by **turin** » July 4th, 2004, 12:49 am

MadMax wrote:
turin wrote:thats why i hate drakes.
I see. That's why you didn't return my PM?

Well, i actually didn't return your PM because i didn't realize you wanted me to. But i don't really plan on playtesting your campaign, because 1) i don't like drakes and 2) i read the plot and i didn't really like it. I bet the campaign is well done, i just don't think i would like it.

MadMax · Post by **MadMax** » July 4th, 2004, 2:42 am

what exactly don't you like about the plot? Anyway, I think drakes will be a little better when they are all done. Also, since you're so much better at WML than I am (Captured speaks for itself), then can you proofread the WML?

Post by **Jetrel** » July 4th, 2004, 3:51 am

Neoriceisgood wrote:I don't realy see what you have against pegasus/medusa or any of these old likes as they were from Greek(?) mythology, in wich they often based things of wich already existed. And personaly I like certain aspects as long as they stay in their original form, elves are long elusive "immortal" folk whom practicaly never age, dwarves are small hairy people who live in mountains, but that these two are the most common fantasy races how are these not perverted? Have you ever searched out for the actual origin of these two "races" to see where the name originates from?

oy. The catch with the plural forms of those creatures is that, lacking a word for winged horse, people simply used the name of a single winged horse to denote the entire race. Like if there was an entire race of people who looked like Prince, you would probably call them purple.

Dwarves and elves don't bug me so much - tolkien created[1] them not because they looked cool per se, but rather to make a point. For example, with elves, he tried to take a look at what mankind would be like if we had the things we so often dream of: immortality, perfection of form, freedom from disease, a close connection with the spirit world, etc.

The other thing is, tolkiens humanoid races looked like things one could find in the real world. Elves are just really, really good-looking humans with slightly pointed ears (most art exaggerates the ears.

And dwarves? [censored] - last january, I was on the metro going over to Pest, and me and some of my classmates saw this drunken fellow sitting on the other side of the car from us. Or, I might more aptly say we smelled him. Anyhow, it struck me how close a resemblance this guy bore to Gimli, from the movies. It was surreal.

Ogres? Look at real human giants - those strange mutations of human genetics that cause a select few people to grow to almost 5/3 the usual size.

Etc.

-------------

And for reference, most mythology is [censored]. "So zeus had this headache, see, and hephaestus came to try and help him out, so he chizels a hole in the dude's head, and *POP* out comes athena, or someone."

Post by **Jetrel** » July 4th, 2004, 3:55 am

Dave wrote:
Elvish Pillager wrote: So the Loyalists get a flying unit. Though, this isn't the best idea.
I don't see why every faction should get a flying unit. Some have them, some don't.

David

Agreed. Gryphons are quite enough, thank you. I myself could do without them, but they happen to be tastefully done in the game.

How so? Take a look at those front "Lion's paws." They aren't - it's an eagle, with four eagle's legs.

Post by **Dave** » July 4th, 2004, 3:58 am

Jetryl wrote:For example, with elves, he tried to take a look at what mankind would be like if we had the things we so often dream of: immortality, perfection of form, freedom from disease, a close connection with the spirit world, etc.

Out of interest, do you have any sources that say that Tokien said this was his intent with the Elves, or is this just your interpretation?

David