Undead vs rebels

[Higher Game]

I was referring to melee attacks when I mentioned attacking shamans and mages. Lots of people look at bats as worthless, but they do fine against these guys. When you factor in upkeep, bats are probably just half as expensive as ghosts, easily. I would much rather have 2 mobile bats than a single, slightly stronger ghost.

I was referring to orc archers when it comes to ghosts against Northerners. I was just describing general uses of the ghost.

Retreating should never be done. If you drive the enemy from good terrain at night, holding that land at day is essential. Otherwise, there was no point in the offense.

[Agent Jack Bauer]

Retreating should never be done. If you drive the enemy from good terrain at night, holding that land at day is essential. Otherwise, there was no point in the offense.

Good God. This one is a real gem.

[Higher Game]

It's a simple fact that taking good land from the enemy usually results in great losses in your side, even when TOD elements are considered. You're essentially trading blood for soil. If you just give away that land at day, you're left with a loss of units for nothing, and your opponent has the advantage. Holding on to a village is not only more gold for you, but less for the enemy; lots of people forget this. Even if you lose even more guys on the defense, the key is to toe the line, since you will eventually win the battle of attrition if you have the village and terrain advantage.

[Highest Game]

Ah, I take back my previous untoward statements: Higher Game is truly higher than myself.

You see, children? It's so simple. Never retreat under any circumstances. No, you don't want to retreat those expensive units, especially the ones with a couple hits left. Then they wouldn't be killed, and all that hard fighting would come to nothing.

Retreating should never be done. Ah, I have reached a state of serenity.

[Zhukov]

It's a simple fact that taking good land from the enemy usually results in great losses in your side, even when TOD elements are considered. You're essentially trading blood for soil. If you just give away that land at day, you're left with a loss of units for nothing, and your opponent has the advantage. Holding on to a village is not only more gold for you, but less for the enemy; lots of people forget this. Even if you lose even more guys on the defense, the key is to toe the line, since you will eventually win the battle of attrition if you have the village and terrain advantage.

Sweet sanity. It just gets better and better.

Sir Game, attacking a position doesn't require high casualties. "Simple fact" my foot. If you know what you're doing, "taking good land from the enemy" should not "result in great losses in your side". If your actions are going to cost you more then they will the enemy then they are probably a bad idea. Now there is a simple fact for you.
If you have taken over a good enemy position and your losses in doing so have been significantly greater then those of your opponent, you're in trouble. You want to cut your losses and run, unless you can reinforce the position real quick. Even then you might want to retreat, depending on circumstances. The last thing you want to do is "toe the line" with your battered and depleted troops, especially if the enemy is about to get a ToD advantage. They will use this advantage to regain their position. Where's your "village and terrain advantage" then, eh?

Even if you start off by overrunning the good land in question while taking minimal losses there's still a good chance that retreating during unfavourable ToD will be a good idea. Having just made a successful assault you don't want to give away the advantage by letting yourself get trounced by the enemy counterattack. Instead you retain your hard won gains by backing away and declining battle when your opponent is strong. Repeat this process throughout the game and your opponent won't have the numbers to match you. That is attrition.

You know, I'm starting to suspect that Unsung is dead right about you. And if he isn't, then Noy certainly is.

Omeonesay anbay isthay oolfay. Heay illway owerlay tandardsay.

[Higher Game]

I admit that I enjoy playing epic, high gold matches, so that probably influences my opinion. If villages were only worth 1 or 2 gold, I would have to reconsider my options. In a 4 or 5 gold match, it's definitely worth risking units to keep land. It all depends on the map, settings, and situation.

(whimpers away)

[PingPangQui]

I admit that I enjoy playing epic, high gold matches, so that probably influences my opinion. If villages were only worth 1 or 2 gold, I would have to reconsider my options. In a 4 or 5 gold match, it's definitely worth risking units to keep land. It all depends on the map, settings, and situation.

(whimpers away)

Higher Game,

I'm one of your greatest fans, really and I do really hate interfering but in this case I really have to.

Before posting any strategies you should consider that people don't know which setting you use and what kind of maps you play on. That said, people will naturally assume default settings, i.e. 70% xp, income = 2 gold per village + 2 gold, starting gold = 100 (or slightly different, 75-125 gold, depending on the map) and standard average size maps like blitz or charge, if you don't write differently.

Hm, but on the otherside ..., for the sake of , maybe keep it like you have been doing.

PingPangQui

P.S.: Hope to see a match of yours sometime.

[Sombra]

I admit that I enjoy playing epic, high gold matches, so that probably influences my opinion. If villages were only worth 1 or 2 gold, I would have to reconsider my options. In a 4 or 5 gold match, it's definitely worth risking units to keep land. It all depends on the map, settings, and situation.

(whimpers away)

So you never use the default values for playing?

[F8 Binds...]

I was referring to melee attacks when I mentioned attacking shamans and mages. Lots of people look at bats as worthless, but they do fine against these guys. When you factor in upkeep, bats are probably just half as expensive as ghosts, easily. I would much rather have 2 mobile bats than a single, slightly stronger ghost.

Well, yes shamans and mages have weak melee. Just mention "melee" when you say they are weak. A bat cannot get into combat without a good chance of dying. The ghost can get in combat without dying. Look- have a chance of losing 20g, or lose 26g by losing 2 bats, or waste 26g because they just run around. Elvish scouts butcher bats, and have near-equal movement. AVOID THE BAT!

I was referring to orc archers when it comes to ghosts against Northerners. I was just describing general uses of the ghost.

Ghost-
uses-
1. To provide a reliable scout unit that has nice resistances.
2. To annoy blade, pierce, and impact using units.
3. To provide cold damage.

Retreating should never be done. If you drive the enemy from good terrain at night, holding that land at day is essential. Otherwise, there was no point in the offense.

Never? Nomatter what? just reading that is crap. Sometimes you should hold the line at day, but only if you have a great advantage. The mages+woses are just too deadly on your units at day. That's why you retreat at day. The point of the offense?

1. To kill as many units as possible.
2. To gain ground that you lose during day.
3. To gain villages you lose during day.
4. To gain exp.
5. To gain more zombie slaves.

edit: this is my 100th post

[Konrad II]

Most has been said already. But there is one thing, that i think was overlooked so far:

Konrad said, his opponent positioned his units, so that they couldn't be attacked by more than two enemies. That really is a problem because all suggestions so far based on the assumptions that rebel woses and mages get killed. If not you are indeed subject to a heavy counter attack, even at night.

This is indeed a difficult problem. I looked at the new Blitz map and there are indeed some locations, that allow for a good defense for elves. Now what to do about it? Some suggestions:

1.
Did you try to march through the center? you might be able to get around the defense line. However, this requires some more units, as one of your wings will be weakened significantly. So it is rather an option for later turns.

2.
Retreat at day and let your opponent get deep into your territory. Lure him by offering an additional village at say second part of day. Get him close enough to be in reach of your leader. Then wait for the right time to attack and take your leader with you to outnumber the rebels. Plan this in advance, timing is most important here. Staying one turn too long can be deadly for elves.

3.
You might consider to combine option 2 with sending your ghost into the back of the enemy forces (if possible). Preferably at dusk being player 1. The ghost will probably get killed but it will most likely take 2 units to do that (one of them a mage). This can delay the retreat of your opponents units into their preferred positions. Timing is very important here. Also make sure you leave enemy units on bad terrain.

4.
Even in the middle of the game, there must be some weak points in the frontline, that you can attack at night. If you are sure there aren't any, please post a replay or give us a screenshot to have a look at.

5.
You don't always have to fight your way through. Woses are slow and bypassing them might as well be an option.

One very important thing in the end:
Don't fight elves at their conditions. Make them get out of their forest to fight you and you are halfway done. I know this is easier said than done. Be creative and don't run into a well secured frontline.

The "letting him get village thing" when its day soon night, is pretty nice I think, and having him leave his position if I can. I'm gonna try this, as I am full into what others have said, but its yet true I have a lot of troubles getting on the enemy, because I can only attack each unit from 2 hexes.
Ty for your input Yogi Bear, and of course F8 Binds. I will make use of your tips

[unsung]

Well, about 90% of what higher game has said was just explained, and my faith in my supremity at tricking people good has been restored.

I still suspect that they would cause you to lose, regardless of gold settings, but I can almost begin to understand them.


and still retreat. Please.

1 or 5 extra units rushing up to the fight after healing can make a huge difference.

And ghouls= winners.

Poinson really messes with people, and if the little tree hugging freaks are hiding in the wooods, poison makes it so that they take damage after the first hit unless they run for a village.

[Imp]

and still retreat. Please.

No! Don't retreat! I need more easy multiplayer scalps!

[Glowing Fish]

Ghost-
uses-
1. To provide a reliable scout unit that has nice resistances.
2. To annoy blade, pierce, and impact using units.
3. To provide cold damage.

And, to level up. If I am playing as Undead, I will make advancing ghosts my priority.

[Xandria]

Of course. Once Mr. Spooky gets that glowing sword, about the only thing woses can do to him is to display their wooden buttocks and say "please spank!"

[JW]

I admit that I enjoy playing epic, high gold matches, so that probably influences my opinion. If villages were only worth 1 or 2 gold, I would have to reconsider my options. In a 4 or 5 gold match, it's definitely worth risking units to keep land. It all depends on the map, settings, and situation.

(whimpers away)

Can someone ban him from posting in this forum?