Proposal: Eliminate the Holy damage type.

[JW]

Much <3 on Thanksgiving to you guys.

[Temuchin Khan]

I was going to be gone for four months, but after a month my plans had changed. Anyway, throwing in my two cents....

pure
disenchant
mystical
lucent
celestial
hallow
astral
supernal
empyrean/empyreal
ethereal
essence
prismatic
elemental
spectral
solar

aura
smite
chasten
chastise
immolate
hecatomb
holocaust {but this might not go over well....}
anathema
anathematize

I'm leaning toward "hecatomb" at the moment....

blade, pierce, impact, fire, cold, hecatomb

[Noyga]

I start to find those replacements much more UNKISS than the current holy damage...

[Noy]

I start to find those replacements much more UNKISS than the current holy damage...

I agree, and no offense TK most of those suggestions don't even fit the criteria, and hecatomb makes no sense at all.

I think Dispell is pretty simple and explaintory. It also fits the concept too, which is a disenchant or anti magic type attack, which would be how the refined damage type would conceptually operate.

[Temuchin Khan]

I start to find those replacements much more UNKISS than the current holy damage...

But KISS applies to programming, not names.

Anyway, with my suggestions I was trying to find a word that would capture both the concept of "holy" and that of "damage."

"Immolate," "hecatomb," and "holocaust" would seem to accomplish this best, insofar as they technically refer to the act of making a burnt offering to a deity.

However, "holocaust" has acquired other connotations that might render it unfit for our purposes. That leaves "immolate" and "hecatomb."

Perhaps, for ambience, the latter could be spelled "hekatomb."

EDIT: In other words, the only problem with these suggestions is that they are not used in common language and would not be immediately recognizable to many people.

[Noy]

I start to find those replacements much more UNKISS than the current holy damage...

But KISS applies to programming, not names.

In this case Kiss does apply. We needed a simple name that could describe a wide variety phenomenon that was easily identifiable. Moreover, since this concept name has to be translated into many different languages, using really rare words like hekatomb creates a lot of problems, even for traslators who don't even know what the word means. KISS here is almost a prerequisite.

Anyway, with my suggestions I was trying to find a word that would capture both the concept of "holy" and that of "damage."

Well there you go. That wasn't what was proposed in the first place or what this damage type is. In my proposal I suggested religion was a possible way to achieve this, but it wasn't the only way. Giving the Sorceress this ability would not necessarily make her a religious person.

Perhaps, for ambience, the latter could be spelled "hekatomb."

great so we can make it even harder for someone to understand.

EDIT: In other words, the only problem with these suggestions is that they are not used in common language and would not be immediately recognizable to many people.

Yeah, that being the point of kiss, for the most basic aspects of the game, should we be looking to make it as intuitive and easy as possible, not make them searching a dictionary to understand what the damage type actually does. God knows that the learning curve rest of the game is tough enough as is.

[Noy]

Does anybody have any problems with Dispell?

[Elvish_Pillager]

Does anybody have any problems with Dispell?

The fact that the word is actually spelled "Dispel".

[Noy]

wow, are we going to nitpick on spelling now? This is the developers forum, not off topic.

Seriously, Dispel, does anybody have serious problems with this. Dont make me write off the forums completely here people.

[Jetrel]

The thing I don't like about dispel is that it loses all connotation of holiness or light.


It's okay, though; in many cosmologies, the power of god/religion has been seen as our only defense against 'magic of any kind'. It wouldn't be a bad interpretation for it to result in an ability of mankind to use faith to "dispel" evil things.

The only issue is that, though one could see someone dispelling an elf to death; killing the magic that gives it life; it seems a bit of a stretch to do that to a human. I mean, you could argue that it's hurting their soul, or breaking the connection between spirit and body, but it's a stretch to see this killing them outright.

Hmm.

Giving Drakes a slight "light" a.k.a. lucent weakness would be weird because they are lawful-- i.e., they are suppoed to like light. (Unless they are partially photosythetic and too much light overloads their system-- or some contrtived explanation like that).

Too much light can kill anything, even humans and plants, even the hardiest creature of the desert. I fail to see how this is a problem.

But does it make sense to hit someone with some purity, or cause lucentment, or prismaticise them, or smite them with ether or essence?

Purity, no (unless it's a demon/undead).

But light itself is one of the most powerful destructive forces around - pretty soon we'll be putting it in guns and shooting it at people*. "'Light' sabres" may have sounded like a silly name on the screenwriting drafts, but came off pretty darn well.


* c.f. lasers

[Noy]

Hmmm I get your point, but we have suspensions of beliefs with other damage types too. I think we should go with, as long as we have a good plausable explaination for it. For Dispel we could use words like disrupt magic energy of which life energy is a subset, without going into details.

The other option I had was White magic, though some people might have problems with that.

[Jetrel]

The only issue is that, though one could see someone dispelling an elf to death; killing the magic that gives it life; it seems a bit of a stretch to do that to a human. I mean, you could argue that it's hurting their soul, or breaking the connection between spirit and body, but it's a stretch to see this killing them outright.

I can't really come up with any better names, not for some time, certainly.

I can clutch at straws, and scrape together some other words that suggest "destroying/renouncing magic", I don't know if these are better, though:
annul
abjure
abolish
nullify
revoke
exscind
purge
quell

I guess it all wraps back to the same problem of "de-magiking" a guy to death just seeming ... wrong. "Smiting a guy to death with the power of heaven" has all sorts of precedent in myth, but not "depriving them of magic."

Think hard about it, and do what you will. It's not worth holding back a change like this if the new name isn't perfect.

[Cuyo Quiz]

The only issue is that, though one could see someone dispelling an elf to death; killing the magic that gives it life; it seems a bit of a stretch to do that to a human. I mean, you could argue that it's hurting their soul, or breaking the connection between spirit and body, but it's a stretch to see this killing them outright.

What about Arcane then?. The connonation of misterious in the word gives foot to the fact that, although wielded, the workings on how can damage magical, ghostly, and natural beings remains shady.

Of course, this isn't Arcane as used in common fantasy, but as in actual secretive or mostly unknown nature. wheter it be from the secret gods shaping the world or causing inestability on carbo links in cells is sometihng that can't be acerted.

Seems to be open-ended enough for Wesnoth, IMHO.

[Elvish_Pillager]

The only issue is that, though one could see someone dispelling an elf to death; killing the magic that gives it life; it seems a bit of a stretch to do that to a human. I mean, you could argue that it's hurting their soul, or breaking the connection between spirit and body, but it's a stretch to see this killing them outright.

Dispelling doesn't have to refer to dispelling magic, in particular. Dispelling life makes sense too ("causing it to go away", which is the meaning of "dispel".)

[zookeeper]

I'll vote for "white" for now. Just seems to be the one with the most potential that fits well with the existing damage types.