a stupid question

podunk · Post by **podunk** » August 19th, 2006, 1:53 pm

I hate to ask this and apologize in advance, and I did search and read - and found bunches of threads where it is mentioned but I don't understand.

When you click on Menu | Statistics you get a chart with recruits recalls losses kills etc.

What precisely do the numbers in
Damage inflicted (EV)
Damage taken (EV)
mean?

I assume that having the inflicted being much higher that the taken is good.

Is there any way to use these numbers to judge how well you're doing? For instance I got to the Valley of Death last night (1.1.8 Hero or medium) I have
Recruits 36
Recalls 67
Advancements 26
Losses 18
Kills 225
Damage inflicted 9862
Damage taken 3907
Damage inflicted (EV) 9685.5
Damage taken (EV) 4195.1

This is much better it seems than the same point of a game I completed several weeks ago (which I was delighted with at the time) in that I have fewer recruits and losses. Is that the only purpose of the numbers - so you can see if you've improved any?

Thanks!

Dacyn · Post by **Dacyn** » August 19th, 2006, 2:14 pm

EV stands for "expected value", or the average value given the attacks you made (since the results are random). For example if you attack a unit with 50% defence with a 7-3 attack, expected damage will be 10.5.

Post by **turin** » August 19th, 2006, 2:23 pm

So, if your damage inflicted is higher than your damage inflicted (EV), you've been getting good luck, and if it is lower, you've been getting bad luck.

Post by **zookeeper** » August 19th, 2006, 2:33 pm

podunk wrote:I assume that having the inflicted being much higher that the taken is good.

It's not really an indication of success. It can give you a general idea, but it's definitely not an exact meter. In campaigns, you're supposed to inflict much more damage than the enemy does to you, since the enemy (usually) has more resources than you do and you need to conserve units while the AI doesn't. Also, imagine you were fighting a big bunch of ghosts - 1hp of damage dealt to a ghost is a whole lot bigger part of the ghost's full health than 1hp of damage dealt to your grand knight. So, the ghosts can inflict 100hp of damage to your units and you can still be doing very well even if you only deal 50hp worth of damage to them. Also, imagine you have four 30hp units and your enemy has the same. You can both deal 60hp of damage to each other, but that doesn't necessarily tell which one is doing better - one side may have lost two of the units and have the remaining two at full health, while the other one has all four still standing, with half health.

I myself mostly check the damage dealt and received stats on MP games to see if one side has gotten especially lucky or unlucky.

podunk · Post by **podunk** » August 19th, 2006, 4:34 pm

Thank you all! And duh!

So this means that by having my EV's being higher than actual - I'm having a slight run of bad luck. Can I assume that if I am recruiting less and my losses are lower than my previous campaign which had EV's lower than than actual dealt - I'm learning to over come bad luck with planning maybe?

Am I ready for multiplayer yet? I wanna be a contada!

NeoPhile · Post by **NeoPhile** » August 19th, 2006, 5:27 pm

podunk wrote:So this means that by having my EV's being higher than actual - I'm having a slight run of bad luck. Can I assume that if I am recruiting less and my losses are lower than my previous campaign which had EV's lower than than actual dealt - I'm learning to over come bad luck with planning maybe?

Nope, you're actually having some good luck. You've inflicted 176.5 more points of damage than expected, and you've lost 288.1 less hitpoints than expected.

tsr · Post by **tsr** » August 19th, 2006, 6:27 pm

Since you allready got your answer, I wont answer that again, but would like to point out one thing.

podunk wrote:I hate to ask this and apologize in advance, and I did search and read - and found bunches of threads where it is mentioned but I don't understand.

You don't need to apologize for not knowing. Stupidity is not lack of knowledge.

You have allready proven that you are not stupid by searching the forums for your answer and when not finding it asking it in a realtively mature way.

/tsr

podunk · Post by **podunk** » August 19th, 2006, 10:03 pm

Roger that - I *am* having good luck! I beat the Valley of Death - on medium even! Lost 1 horseman and one very marginal mage (22 hp strong dexterous). I can't believe it, I've been close several times (2 hit points once when the time ran out) and it took every penny I had. It was worth it.

Now I'm
Damage inflicted 11799
Damage taken 4789
Inflicted (EV) 11809.8
Taken (EV) 5081.3

I'm pretty sure most of it it happened on Bay of Pearls, for some reason the AI covered up the southeast cage with *a* bat instead of having a naga on it and several others in support. Once I freed that cage he kept throwing nagas down to it instead of going to the force freed from the north cage, so they came in full hit points at dawn.

I was able to rotate mermen around to heal while I was killing the bats and nagas and Bugg. Once I killed the boss sea orc and took the village at the river crossing all the whelps came ashore and I wasn't very nice to them. So I had 2 extra level ups and lots more money which made SoE go good and....

Lots of times I feel like my questions are stupid because every one else throws these numbers and terms around - and I just hate to ask. Like my 1/5 movement question - or no flame sword!

Rats, since my luck is running hot I guess this means I'm still not ready for prime time and the big boys on MP.

Hey! Since I complained about my good luck - does that put me on the balancing team?

ultramarine · Post by **ultramarine** » August 22nd, 2006, 6:00 am

There is no such thing as a stupid question.

Elvish_Pillager · Post by **Elvish_Pillager** » August 23rd, 2006, 10:30 am

In fact, this was an extremely non-stupid question. Personally I think it should say "Damage dealt (expected value)" or "Expected damage dealt"; or at least have a note at the bottom of the statistics window saying "(EV=expected value.)" I mean, how is anyone supposed to know?

Oreb · Post by **Oreb** » August 23rd, 2006, 11:20 am

Even I didn't know, it should be in the manual explaining what it is if the name isn't changed

Post by **Zhukov** » August 23rd, 2006, 11:36 am

Yeah, it took me quite a while to figure it out.

JW · Post by JW » August 23rd, 2006, 1:09 pm

Well, EV is a common statistical abbreviation, and for anyone who has taken statistics it's pretty clear that in the context of the window and those numbers that EV = Expected Value.

Of course, to anyone who hasn't taken statistics (I'm assuming the majority, if not the vast majority of Wesnoth players) it wouldn't be so obvious, or even considered.

Perhaps they think it stands for the girl in V for Vendetta.

zol · Post by **zol** » August 23rd, 2006, 3:42 pm

For anyone who hasn't taken statistics (and perhaps some who have), it isn't clear that Expected Value in the game doesn't mean 'What a good player is expected to acheived given the same chances'.

JW · Post by JW » August 23rd, 2006, 9:19 pm

EV has nothing to do with skill. Skilled players and inexperienced players will have the same EV if they make the same moves.

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