[Historical] Campaign-Rebirth of the North

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HairMetalAddict
Posts: 2
Joined: June 28th, 2006, 1:06 pm

A Bad EXPERIENCE with The Northern Rebirth

Post by HairMetalAddict » June 28th, 2006, 1:12 pm

On starting Infested Caves (Wesnoth 1.1.7, latest version of TNR on the server), I had a peasant with some interesting experience.

See attached image for screenshot.

Dunno if this is a system or scenario bug.

I *believe* what happened was that particular peasant gave the final blow in the previous scenario, killing the second orc leader. However, the level-up popup that should have appeared, didn't.


(Note: On his first attack, he moved up so the error corrects itself.)
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A bad experience with the game. Pun intended.
A bad experience with the game. Pun intended.
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Seleukus
Posts: 15
Joined: October 1st, 2005, 3:37 am

Post by Seleukus » June 28th, 2006, 10:09 pm

I would like to offer a suggestion:

When you change Tallin into a Lieutenant, perhaps include an option that if he's a level 3 unit, then change him into a General instead. I had spent painstaking effort advancing him to a Royal Guard, and so I was upset to see him 'downgraded' to a Lieutenant.

EDIT: Another bug: When Tallin was a Royal Guard, he had 73 HP. As a Lieutenant, he now has 73/55 HP. Perhaps you should set his HP to 55 when you change him.

bloblo

Post by bloblo » June 28th, 2006, 11:38 pm

nadjii wrote:.../
however, in the malifor-killing scenerio (Pursuit), i tried to kill him second time with a holy attack. this caused him to disappear from the map, and than nothing happened. so i waited for a while, but finally i had to reload, and kill him with the white mages
well... i have used the passage with sea's monstres and kill Malifor 2 time (first with holly attack, second with dwarven) and he disappears too.... I have killed some others monsters and now i stay with only 2 peoples (against a lot of skeletons) and Tallin... without seeing Maliflor...

as link... my last save...

Someone has an idea for helping me...

Version 1.11.5 Complete! Last updated 3/6/06.
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Seleukus
Posts: 15
Joined: October 1st, 2005, 3:37 am

Post by Seleukus » June 29th, 2006, 3:59 pm

Suggestion:

In "Old Friend", the Goblin Knight ambush should be moved so that it isn't triggered until you engage Rakshas's bodyguards. Since the soldiers say that they're cut off by the Knights, but in actuality my soldiers had just reached the eastern foothills of the central mountains, so the Knights were in front of them.

Other than that, its a very fun level. I first set up a defensive line, but then managed to make a thrust through the center to pocket the enemy right flank. The orcs didn't want to attack my left flank, since I had a Dwarf with a certain item from Pursuit. I then advanced to flank the enemy center and left; then the yellow Orc leader attacked me, so I killed him. Only to see Rakshas and the green orcs get huge amounts of gold.

Its turn 13 right now, and I'm trying to see if I can kill the green orc leader as well before I have to retreat.

At the start, I was planning on only holding a defensive line, so I only recruited/recalled one and a half keepfuls of soldiers, amounting to 32 soldiers (including Tallin and the other people I start with). Thinking about it now, I might have been able to have gotten to Rakshas if I had recalled all my experienced soldiers - I had built up a horde of 21 Dwarvish Lords, but I only recalled three.

EDIT: The trolls in "Stolen Gold" are behaving strangely. At first, they only recruited one unit each! Its only turn 5, and I've already taken out the northwestern and northeastern troll leaders. And the remaining trolls start recruiting many units. Why didn't they recruit those units at the start?

Another edit: When you level Ro'Sathian up to 'Dread Lich", its description references Ha'atel (from the Dark Hordes campaign.) Perhaps you should change its description.

lougarou
Posts: 12
Joined: January 15th, 2006, 10:48 pm

Post by lougarou » June 30th, 2006, 4:18 pm

Advice for play

Hi!

The campaign is very good, but I only reached Cleaning the Mines (in hard level). I have about 750 gold, about 10 bandits, 4 trappers, 2 dwarvish steelclad. I am completely crushed each try. Am I too weak?

toms
Posts: 1717
Joined: November 6th, 2005, 2:15 pm

Post by toms » June 30th, 2006, 4:29 pm

lougarou wrote:The campaign is very good, but I only reached Cleaning the Mines (in hard level). I have about 750 gold, about 10 bandits, 4 trappers, 2 dwarvish steelclad. I am completely crushed each try. Am I too weak?
You don't have enough gold. You need to recruit HUGE armies of Dwarves, ~1500 gold would work better. 2000+ is good.
First read, then think. Read again, think again. And then post!

Taurus
Inactive Developer
Posts: 674
Joined: May 4th, 2005, 8:16 pm
Location: Canada

Re: A Bad EXPERIENCE with The Northern Rebirth

Post by Taurus » July 6th, 2006, 6:52 am

HairMetalAddict wrote:On starting Infested Caves (Wesnoth 1.1.7, latest version of TNR on the server), I had a peasant with some interesting experience.

See attached image for screenshot.

Dunno if this is a system or scenario bug.

I *believe* what happened was that particular peasant gave the final blow in the previous scenario, killing the second orc leader. However, the level-up popup that should have appeared, didn't.

(Note: On his first attack, he moved up so the error corrects itself.)
Hi HairMetalAddict, hmmm, interesting. I have had it lots of times when my men make a leveling up blow on the last turn and they still get to level. In any case, this isn't a game with the scenario, but with the game itself, so if you are worried about this then bring it up to one of the developers. Oh, and BTW, I like your pun ;)
Seleukus wrote:When you change Tallin into a Lieutenant, perhaps include an option that if he's a level 3 unit, then change him into a General instead. I had spent painstaking effort advancing him to a Royal Guard, and so I was upset to see him 'downgraded' to a Lieutenant.
Hi Seleukus, thanks for the imput. As a matter of fact I just applied most of your advice, about the Goblin Knight "ambush", and about the Leutanent/General thing (everyone seems to be complaining about it so I just went ahead and implamented what you said). It's being uploaded to the server right now. Glad to see you are having fun with the game :-)

Oh, and about the trolls in "Stolen Gold", I know, it drives me up the wall too. The core of the problem is that the AI doesen't want to pit trolls against anything but Dwarves and Gryphons, so unless you have a bunch of those they won't recruit any of them at all. I tried making the ai's a bit more agressave and adding "ignore_bad_recruit=yes" but they still don't get their act together. Anybody have any suggestions?
bloblo wrote:well... i have used the passage with sea's monstres and kill Malifor 2 time (first with holly attack, second with dwarven) and he disappears too.... I have killed some others monsters and now i stay with only 2 peoples (against a lot of skeletons) and Tallin... without seeing Maliflor...

as link... my last save...
Hi bloblo, I looked at your save and... well, it doesen't look good. For one thing in order to beat this level you...... well, I guess I won't spoil it for you, but you pretty much have to explore most of the map - the dungens in particular because you can't kill Malifor with the units you start with. And there is lots of other cool little trinklets that you would enjoy too (i.e. a couple thousand gold, a few alies and a very powerfull weapon that everyone seems to be crazy about). If I may say, you might need a little more then 150 gold to start out with.

As I already mentioned before, I am uploading 1.12.1 on the server right now. It isn't anything much, just a few tweeks and bug fixes, but it needed to be done.
Creater of the campaign, "Northern Rebirth"

Compleater of the campaign, "Son of the Black Eye"

Seleukus
Posts: 15
Joined: October 1st, 2005, 3:37 am

Post by Seleukus » July 6th, 2006, 3:05 pm

After "Get the Gold", even though it describes retrieving the stolen gold and splitting it among Tallin/Krash/Anita, none of them received any. That meant that Krash was crushed by huge waves of Orcish Crossbowmen and Slayers in the Showdown.

Frankly, the castle walls may be helping the orcs more than Krash, since drakes only get 40% defense there (compared to 30% normal), while orcs get 60% (70% for Slayers.) Meaning that if the orcs break through (an inevitability if you only have a few level 1 troops), its nigh impossible to throw them back.

Perhaps you should allow Krash to recruit higher level troops - those would have a better chance of holding against the onslaught.

EDIT: The version of Northern Rebirth on the server is currently still 1.11.5

Taurus
Inactive Developer
Posts: 674
Joined: May 4th, 2005, 8:16 pm
Location: Canada

Post by Taurus » July 6th, 2006, 9:29 pm

What version of wesnoth are you using? If you are using the "stable" release (1.0.2 or earlier) then that is probobally the problem(s). A while back I had to choose weither or not to keep the campaign updated for either the "stable" or the "develpment" version, and I went with the develpment. The version on the "stable" server is no longer being updated. If you like you are more then welcome to hack into the WML and help yourself.

And about the drakes getting slaughtered, I know. When I get around to it I am going to remake that entire map - drakes need room to manouver and that map doesen't give him any. However, it might be a while since my main focus is on Son of the Black Eye at the moment.
Creater of the campaign, "Northern Rebirth"

Compleater of the campaign, "Son of the Black Eye"

mlangsdorf
Posts: 129
Joined: April 27th, 2004, 4:24 pm

Post by mlangsdorf » July 6th, 2006, 10:12 pm

If you're going to redo Showdown, could you reduce the amount of gold involved? I'm playing it on Medium and each Orc lord recruits full castles for 7 turns. There's over 400 units involved in the battle! My computer is an Athlon 64 3000+ and a gig of memory, and it still takes the computer 45+ minutes to complete a turn. It makes the game completely unplayable and rather boring.

Something to help the power, defenseless Drakes in that scenario would help too. Getting massacred by level 3 Orc slurbows just isn't that enjoyable.

Taurus
Inactive Developer
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Joined: May 4th, 2005, 8:16 pm
Location: Canada

Post by Taurus » July 7th, 2006, 5:05 am

mlangsdorf wrote:If you're going to redo Showdown, could you reduce the amount of gold involved? I'm playing it on Medium and each Orc lord recruits full castles for 7 turns. There's over 400 units involved in the battle! My computer is an Athlon 64 3000+ and a gig of memory, and it still takes the computer 45+ minutes to complete a turn. It makes the game completely unplayable and rather boring.

Something to help the power, defenseless Drakes in that scenario would help too. Getting massacred by level 3 Orc slurbows just isn't that enjoyable.
This campaign does tend towards large battles, but I see your point and I'll definatly take it into consiteration. Mind you however, I am planning on compleating SotBE first so it might be a while before I get around to it.
Creater of the campaign, "Northern Rebirth"

Compleater of the campaign, "Son of the Black Eye"

mlangsdorf
Posts: 129
Joined: April 27th, 2004, 4:24 pm

Post by mlangsdorf » July 7th, 2006, 7:24 pm

I like the large battles, to an extent. The Eastern Flank was about as a large as a battle should be, though. It took about 15 minutes per turn for me to play that. It was a little dull in parts, but bearable.

Showdown is just ridiculous. Each game turn would go something like:

2 minutes: retreat poisoned dwarfs to villages and healers
2 minutes: advance mages, eliminate a bunch of Slayers
2 minutes: advance unpoisoned dwarves to contact next rank of Slayers
45 minutes: go do chores around the house while the computer swaps memory repeatedly. Drakes die. Dwarves die.
30 seconds: move last round's drake recruits into position. recruit more drakes.
10 minutes: Dwarves get poisoned shooting at assassins.
3 minutes: move, fight, and recruit elves.

So every hour and change, I spend about 10 minutes making mostly routine decisions. At some point, around turn 25 or so, enemy forces will have probably thinned out enough that each turn will go faster, and there will be meaningfull decisions to make again. I just don't think I want to play long enough for that to
happen.

Seleukus
Posts: 15
Joined: October 1st, 2005, 3:37 am

Post by Seleukus » July 7th, 2006, 7:45 pm

I agreed. So I reduced the gold amount of the various orcs. After that, they only had three castles worth of recruits each... still a lot, but at least bearable.

In the Eastern Flank, I managed to win quickly (9 turns) using a gambit - I only recruited a few elite soldiers with Tallin, while I recruited many drakes with Krash, which acted as a distraction. While the orcish forces swept across the mountains heading for Krash's keep, I fought my way into the orcish castle, and secured a keep. Then, I recalled level-3 units into every open square, surrounding the orcish leaders, and quickly killed all of them. The troll leader managed to escape, so it took an extra three turns before I could fight my way through to him.

Dominikus
Posts: 15
Joined: June 28th, 2006, 1:39 pm

Wrong Ranges

Post by Dominikus » July 8th, 2006, 9:38 am

I'm playing 1.12 and still 11 units have "long" and "short" attacks instead of "ranged" and "meele" (Highwayman, Rogue_Mage, Shadow_Mage, Shadow_Lord, Brigant, Henchman, Huntsman, Human_ranger, Demilich, Dread_Lich and Fugitive). I've changed this for me, but please correct this in a newer version (if not already done).
Thanks.

Taurus
Inactive Developer
Posts: 674
Joined: May 4th, 2005, 8:16 pm
Location: Canada

Post by Taurus » July 8th, 2006, 9:50 pm

Ok Ok, point made! Showdown will have a lot less gold when I redo it. As far as that "sort" attack bug, that is probobally because they are on your recall list. If you upgrade any new bandits then they will be correct. Unfortuatly, it won't do much good if you are in the middle of the campaign with a bunch of units alraedy leveled up...
Creater of the campaign, "Northern Rebirth"

Compleater of the campaign, "Son of the Black Eye"

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