Eastern Invasion

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Steelclad Brian
Posts: 110
Joined: November 15th, 2005, 5:26 am

Post by Steelclad Brian »

After thinking about this a bit, I think I figured out what was intended, but I'm still going to post this since I think it's worth mentioning.

In the scenario "Evacuation" you get an engineer and the goal is apparently to blow up a bridge to the south after moving your troops past the bridge. The problem for me was Engineer died on the third turn or so... and the game kept going. Suddenly, I had no idea what I was supposed to be doing. Because the engineer was a red mage, and I had a red mage, I assumed that the scenario was letting me continue because it would allow me to blow up the bridge with my other mage.

So I crossed the bridge, got everyone on the other side, and moved my red mage onto the explosives... and the game kept going. At this point, I figured that I had to move Gweddry to the southernmost point on the road, since one of the objectives was to "Move Gweddry to Weldyn", or something like that. So I did that.... and the game kept going.

At this point I figured that the scenario was either bugged and I shouldn't be allowed to continue, or the goal of the scenario was to have everyone on the other side when time ran out. So I waited for several turns and dmired the absolutely insanely massive horde that formed on the other side of the river while I blocked it off with a single Dragoon. Then the game ran out of turns, Dacyn told me that I had taken too long and we would surely be slaughtered by orcs, and the game ended in a loss.

After looking at the WML, I assume that the reason the player is allowed to continue after the engineer dies is because there is a hidden victory condition where if you kill all the Orcish leaders you will win without all that bridge business. The problem is that the game doesn't give you a clue what to do once the engineer is killed, and since the objectives don't say anything about requiring the engineer to blow up the bridge, the player has to guess how to win. I clearly guessed wrong, but it wasn't entirely my fault - the objectives themselves have misleading information in them. The objective "Get Gweddry to Weldyn" is actually meaningless in terms of gameplay, since it is impossible to move Gweddry to Weldyn, and even moving Gweddry as close to Weldyn as possible doesn't result in a victory.

Also, the objective "Get everyone possible across the river" is again misleading. Getting every single unit across the bridge does not result in victory, and leaving units behind doesn't prevent victory unless they're plot characters.

I think scenario in general could use a bit more focussed instructions on the victory conditions. At the very least, you can remove the two objectives I mentioned, since they are both either redundant with the main objective description or contradictory.

Fun campaign by the way - the Orcish prison was very nicely executed, although a real meat grinder for my poor troops.
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turin
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Post by turin »

Thanks for the feedback.

Do you think it would be sufficient to add a "die" event to the Engineer, which, while not making you lose, made it clear you could no longer win except by killing the orcish leaders?
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And I hate stupid people.
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Steelclad Brian
Posts: 110
Joined: November 15th, 2005, 5:26 am

Post by Steelclad Brian »

turin wrote:Thanks for the feedback.

Do you think it would be sufficient to add a "die" event to the Engineer, which, while not making you lose, made it clear you could no longer win except by killing the orcish leaders?
Sure, although I'd be pretty impressed if someone actually beat the scenario that way.
EricDerKonig
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Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:29 am

Post by EricDerKonig »

Speaking of that scenario:
I recently beat it (playing Wesnoth 1.1) using the "blow the bridge" method with nearly all of my recallable units and all the heros south of the bridge. On the next scenario, however, Gweddry reverted to a lieutenant (he was a general), Dacyn and Owaec were missing, and I could only recall one unit (my Royal Guard). This seems like a bug; certainly it doesn't seem entirely intentional.

I have a saved game and replay saved, if you need it.

I could try beating it by killing the three leaders, but so far I've had no luck with that. ;)
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turin
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Post by turin »

That looks like a bug in this code to me:

Code: Select all

				[store_unit]
					[filter]
					x=1-31,1-20
					y=21-24,18-20
					[/filter]
				variable=temporary
				kill=yes
				[/store_unit]
				[kill]
				side=1
				fire_event=yes
				animate=yes
				[/kill]
				{FOREACH temporary i}
					[unstore_unit]
					variable=temporary[$i]
					[/unstore_unit]
				{NEXT i}
				[clear_variable]
				name=temporary
				[/clear_variable]
But I can't see anything wrong with it. Little help?
For I am Turin Turambar - Master of Doom, by doom mastered. On permanent Wesbreak. Will not respond to private messages. Sorry!
And I hate stupid people.
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scott
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Location: Alexandria, VA

Post by scott »

Why don't you skip the store/unstore unit steps and just filter the kill on the top half of the map?

At one point it looks like you could have zero side 1 units on the map, which sounds bad to me.
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toms
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Post by toms »

It confuses me either because why don´t the heroes say their text when dying. :?:
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turin
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Post by turin »

scott wrote:Why don't you skip the store/unstore unit steps and just filter the kill on the top half of the map?
That's what I'm not doing. I committed a fix last night.
scott wrote:At one point it looks like you could have zero side 1 units on the map, which sounds bad to me.
Why would that be a problem if it was only until the {FOREACH } was processed? :?
For I am Turin Turambar - Master of Doom, by doom mastered. On permanent Wesbreak. Will not respond to private messages. Sorry!
And I hate stupid people.
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Noyga
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Post by Noyga »

You could just do something like :

Code: Select all

[kill]
   [filter]
      side=1
     [not]
        x=1-31,1-20
        y=21-24,18-20
     [/not]
   [filter]
   fire_event=yes
   animate=yes
[/kill]
I don't see the need of storing/unstorung the ints...
scott
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Location: Alexandria, VA

Post by scott »

turin wrote:
scott wrote:Why don't you skip the store/unstore unit steps and just filter the kill on the top half of the map?
That's what I'm not doing. I committed a fix last night.
scott wrote:At one point it looks like you could have zero side 1 units on the map, which sounds bad to me.
Why would that be a problem if it was only until the {FOREACH } was processed? :?
If it doesn't cause a problem, then it's not. I have seen scenarios store all units and the level didn't end, but if you fire death events for the store unit tag and kill the rest, I wondered if the kill tag immediately activated death events also.
Hope springs eternal.
Wesnoth acronym guide.
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turin
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Post by turin »

Noyga wrote:You could just do something like :

Code: Select all

[kill]
   [filter]
      side=1
     [not]
        x=1-31,1-20
        y=21-24,18-20
     [/not]
   [filter]
   fire_event=yes
   animate=yes
[/kill]
I don't see the need of storing/unstorung the ints...
And indeed, that's what I'm doing now. (Although I don't think you need the [filter] around side=1 and [not]... do you?) At this point, I'm just looking at my old code for theoretical purposes, so I know why it wasn't working.
For I am Turin Turambar - Master of Doom, by doom mastered. On permanent Wesbreak. Will not respond to private messages. Sorry!
And I hate stupid people.
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Big Bad Joe
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Post by Big Bad Joe »

Hail to you Lord of the East,
I have already played EI at least 5 times or so, but with 102 on easy mode it is so challenging that it looks more like hard to me. I have finished HttT, tRoW and UtBS on medium and they are not as hard as EI on easy. Is it your intention? Or is EI balanced just for 111? I am quite a veteran of campaign playing and I am not really sure if any of the newcommers will be able to play this - some levels are just insane ( undead dragon).

Main problems:
1. Turn limits are generally too short for easy - beginner players.
2. I must admit, that I did not have positive gold reserve from the sc. 4 or so.
3. In the captured, there is no early finish bonus, so I have just waited for the last turn while getting money from the city. I understand, that our heroes are fleeing, but it is just annoying to wait. Anyway I have killed all enemies on this map and it makes nothing.
4. Undead Dragon map ( do not know the name) is really insane, every third or fourth move ( not turn) of my units three undead lvl.2s or 3s. rise from the ground, I have no chance to kill them all - it seems to me that triggers for this event are just more common in the level - I have 4 MOLs including Dacyn, 2 Iron Maulers, 1 Paladin, 2 Heavy infantry lvl.2, 2 great mages, Gweddry lvl.4, Owaec lvl. 3, Dragoon and Engineer - and I think it shows my great skill in levelling units. Even with them I am not able to beat the level - they are killing me by their high mobility and unpredictable appearence - in one specific, maybe unlucky, turn 12 lvl.2 or 3. undeads were risen around my group. How am I supposed to fight against 8 wraiths and 3 shadows around me?

Ofcourse I understand, that it could be just my incompetence in playing, but who knows?? :wink:
Just bored..
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Zhukov
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Post by Zhukov »

This campaign appears broken:
I just finished The Drowned Plains (the level that Big Bad Joe is referring to as "Undead Dragon"). However when I try and begin the next level, Approaching Weldyn, it gives me the following:
Error Message wrote:The game could not be loaded: load_game_failed: Unit not found: 'Lord'
:x Grrrah! What is this? HELP!!

On another note, Drowned Plains was really easy. I can't see what Joe is talking about. I finished it on second try with no save/load and no losses, medium difficulty. Although I am using 1.1.1 Maybe my version is easier...?
scott
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Location: Alexandria, VA

Post by scott »

Zhukov wrote:This campaign appears broken:
I just finished The Drowned Plains (the level that Big Bad Joe is referring to as "Undead Dragon"). However when I try and begin the next level, Approaching Weldyn, it gives me the following:
Error Message wrote:The game could not be loaded: load_game_failed: Unit not found: 'Lord'
:x Grrrah! What is this? HELP!!

On another note, Drowned Plains was really easy. I can't see what Joe is talking about. I finished it on second try with no save/load and no losses, medium difficulty. Although I am using 1.1.1 Maybe my version is easier...?
Look in the HTTT units and image folders and copy the lord unit cfg and images to the EI folders. This was my fault from long, long ago. :oops:
Hope springs eternal.
Wesnoth acronym guide.
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turin
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Post by turin »

1.0.2 EI might be rather unbalanced. The turn limits have been increased in 1.1.2 though.
For I am Turin Turambar - Master of Doom, by doom mastered. On permanent Wesbreak. Will not respond to private messages. Sorry!
And I hate stupid people.
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