+Female elvish archer units

Production of artwork for the game by regular contributors takes place here.

Moderator: Forum Moderators

User avatar
Elvish_Pillager
Posts: 8137
Joined: May 28th, 2004, 10:21 am
Location: Everywhere you think, nowhere you can possibly imagine.
Contact:

Post by Elvish_Pillager »

The more different they are, the worse. :(
It's all fun and games until someone loses a lawsuit. Oh, and by the way, sending me private messages won't work. :/ If you must contact me, there's an e-mail address listed on the website in my profile.
hands
Posts: 69
Joined: November 8th, 2005, 8:34 pm

Post by hands »

I don't have anything against the new stance. It does seem to be more feminine, but wasn't obviously feminine at first glance IMO.

The other suggestion to change the headgear to make the hair more visible might work equally well, but that's up for debate. I attached a file with some quick pixel pushing.

I don't think making both changes would be desirable, but I'd have to see the combination of the two to decide.
Attachments
elvish-archerchick_486.gif
elvish-archerchick_486.gif (2.51 KiB) Viewed 6801 times
User avatar
xtifr
Posts: 414
Joined: February 10th, 2005, 2:52 am
Location: Sol III

Post by xtifr »

Using gif animation is really annoying to those of us who have gif animation disabled (i.e. any sane, half-way competent person with a decent browser). There are cases where it's justified, but this is not one of them! You could have just posted the before and after images!

I like the new stance; I do think changes to the headgear would make the differences even more obvious. I think it's still pretty clear that it's the same unit in both cases.
"When a man is tired of Ankh-Morpork, he is tired of ankle-deep slurry" -- Catroaster

Legal, free live music: Surf Coasters at Double Down Saloon, Las Vegas on 2005-03-06. Tight, high-energy Japanese Surf-Rock.
User avatar
Elvish_Pillager
Posts: 8137
Joined: May 28th, 2004, 10:21 am
Location: Everywhere you think, nowhere you can possibly imagine.
Contact:

Post by Elvish_Pillager »

The headgear is one of the most obvious and distinctive parts of the unit. Changing it screws up the unit's quick recognizability.
It's all fun and games until someone loses a lawsuit. Oh, and by the way, sending me private messages won't work. :/ If you must contact me, there's an e-mail address listed on the website in my profile.
WanderingPaladin
Posts: 36
Joined: November 3rd, 2005, 9:18 pm
Location: Rochester, NY

Post by WanderingPaladin »

Elvish Pillager wrote:The headgear is one of the most obvious and distinctive parts of the unit. Changing it screws up the unit's quick recognizability.
Female mages have their heads exposed
User avatar
Cuyo Quiz
Posts: 1777
Joined: May 21st, 2005, 12:02 am
Location: South America

Post by Cuyo Quiz »

I thought the armament was the more recognizable feature of the units. I think it looks good. Though the hair looks "hard", so it need a little more tweaking.
Cuyo Quiz,where madness meets me :D
Turn on, tune in, fall out.
"I know that, but every single person nags about how negative turin is; it should be in the FPI thread "Turin should give positive comments" =)"-Neorice,23 Sep 2004
User avatar
Eleazar
Retired Terrain Art Director
Posts: 2481
Joined: July 16th, 2004, 1:47 am
Location: US Midwest
Contact:

Post by Eleazar »

hands wrote:The other suggestion to change the headgear to make the hair more visible might work equally well, but that's up for debate. I attached a file with some quick pixel pushing.
Ya gotta look at the big picture.

Type of hat, or lack of hat (as EP has said) is one of the major distinguishing features of the elvish archer line, and to a lesser degree of all elvish units.

to compare unit trees, see: http://wesnoth.slack.it/units.cgi

xtifr, sorry you dont' like animated gifs. I know they can be used in very tacky ways, but they are one of the accepted file formats on this forum. If you think they are so bad, lobby keep them from being accepted attachments.
Attachments
current graphics
current graphics
elvish archer.jpg (26.56 KiB) Viewed 6763 times
Last edited by Eleazar on November 11th, 2005, 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Feel free to PM me if you start a new terrain oriented thread. It's easy for me to miss them among all the other art threads.
-> What i might be working on
Attempting Lucidity
hands
Posts: 69
Joined: November 8th, 2005, 8:34 pm

Post by hands »

Eleazar wrote:Ya gotta look at the big picture.

Type of hat, or lack of hat (as EP has said) is one of the major distinguishing features of the elvish archer line, and to a lesser degree of all elvish units.
Now, the big picture's a bit easier to understand. Being able to see the different levels more easily helps with the discussion.

I still like the idea of making the hair visible for the Lv0 version, but I can understand the motivation to make more of a change now that I see how the archer advances. Here is a combination of the two. If the difference with the Lv0 unit is more obvious, the visual cues might be easier to notice with the better units (maybe?).

EDIT: Changed to animated gif with all three images.
Attachments
elvish-archerchick-3.gif
elvish-archerchick-3.gif (4.78 KiB) Viewed 6735 times
User avatar
Jetrel
Posts: 7242
Joined: February 23rd, 2004, 3:36 am
Location: Midwest US

Post by Jetrel »

hands wrote:I don't have anything against the new stance. It does seem to be more feminine, but wasn't obviously feminine at first glance IMO.

The other suggestion to change the headgear to make the hair more visible might work equally well, but that's up for debate. I attached a file with some quick pixel pushing.
I kinda did the exact opposite, because it made the units look too different. Indeed, they originally did not have hats on the female versions, and I later added them in.


I must say that yeah, I wish something more could be done to enhance the female versions. I wish I could better articulate that hallmark of female figuring - the hourglass curve and hips, but it's kinda hard given that elves are already rather skinny, and the sprites are so darn small.

I'll take a look at it later today, though.
User avatar
xtifr
Posts: 414
Joined: February 10th, 2005, 2:52 am
Location: Sol III

Post by xtifr »

Eleazar wrote: xtifr, sorry you dont' like animated gifs. I know they can be used in very tacky ways, but they are one of the accepted file formats on this forum.
They have their legitimate uses too -- they're one of the handiest ways of reviewing an actual animation, for example -- I'm just asking (note: asking) that they not be used unless there's a good reason. I don't mind turning on animation (temporarily) in order to view an animation. Heck, that just plain makes sense! :) But just to view a static image? That's just pure, unmitigated hassle! :(

Anyway, I do want to thank you for starting the discussion. It has bugged me for a while that it's so hard to tell the male archers from the female. It's not a big deal, but it's never seemed quite right to me. I'm not real picky on the method used, though, so I'll let you guys hash it out, but I'm glad something is being done. Thanks again.
"When a man is tired of Ankh-Morpork, he is tired of ankle-deep slurry" -- Catroaster

Legal, free live music: Surf Coasters at Double Down Saloon, Las Vegas on 2005-03-06. Tight, high-energy Japanese Surf-Rock.
Ganter
Posts: 20
Joined: November 10th, 2005, 5:45 pm
Location: Falun, Dalarna, Sweden

Post by Ganter »

IMO Eleazar's new pose is better. The hair is okay but changing both would be to much. And because of all the other elvish units not changing headgear the new archer shouldn't either. BTW all Wesnoth units are stereotypical. I have made my point: Change to Eleazar's first change.
Making the world a better place since 1991.
Ganter
Posts: 20
Joined: November 10th, 2005, 5:45 pm
Location: Falun, Dalarna, Sweden

Post by Ganter »

Also the female marksman is to much like the male version. Could you do something about that too?
Making the world a better place since 1991.
User avatar
irrevenant
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 3692
Joined: August 15th, 2005, 7:57 am
Location: I'm all around you.

Post by irrevenant »

this is an aside, but maybe both the male and female Elvish Archers could have their hair down (with headwear still distinguishing the later levels)? They look good like that...
User avatar
Kestenvarn
Inactive Developer
Posts: 1307
Joined: August 19th, 2005, 7:30 pm
Contact:

Post by Kestenvarn »

Am I one of the only ones that thinks they look fine as-is?
User avatar
Zhukov
Art Contributor
Posts: 1685
Joined: November 9th, 2005, 5:48 am
Location: Australia

Post by Zhukov »

The 'feet together' pose for the female looks downright uncomfortable. Nothing to do with stereotypes - she just appears to be about to fall over. :)
scott wrote:I don't have any personal experience firing a bow in combat, but I imagine it would be just as hard firing with your legs as far apart as the male elf has.
Just a little point of infomation, the "correct" bow posture (that is, the one they will teach you at an archery club, or the one an athlete uses) has the archer standing side-on to the target, with feet shoulder width apart. But whether an Elf should conform to that, who knows :?:
But if this picture is just for the base (not attacking) graphic I don't see how that matters.

The lack of cap/hood makes her more obviously female, I can still tell it is the same unit.

Personally I never had trouble distinguishing (sp?) between male and female rangers/marksmen/avengers/sharpshooters. It was only ever the basic lvl1 archers that were hard to tell apart.

Perhaps the 'feet together' stance would look more natural if she looked more balanced, make her legs straight perhaps?
Post Reply