Elvish Cataphract Proposal

[Sangel]

Hi all. I just downloaded Wesnoth for Mac yesterday, and a mighty fine game it is. I'm playing through the Heir to the Throne campaign right now, and having a great time. One thing I immediately missed is the lack of a third level for the Elvish Scout/Outrider. Anyway, I figured why complain when you can do something about it?

Using the Outrider as a base, I took the Paladin's helmet, recoloured it to green-and-gold, added elf ears and pasted it over the Outrider's head. I also lengthened the sword slightly, changed the cloak to golden and made the attack animation slightly "magical". Voila; Elvish Cataphract.

I'm not dead certain these are ready to directly insert into the game, but I'll pose the results anyway, along with an original Outrider for comparison.

Statwise, I was thinking perhaps HP 60, Move 11, Sword (blade) 7/6 and Bow (pierce) 6/3 - more skillful than a Paladin (more attacks) but still less damaging.

So - comments?

[telex4]

The idea of a 3rd level scout has been brought up a few times on these forums, and so far most people agree that a 3rd level scout would be too powerful, and would ruin the game slightly, since having weak but very fast scouts gives Elves an interesting unit.

However, it could be an alternative level two unit, perhaps not getting any more movement points than the level one scout, but getting the scouting ability discussed here, or some other ability.

[turin]

personally, i like the idea of a third level scout that only gains scouting, plus probably more damage. as for the images, the new image looks too much like the current outrider. i suggest changing how the horse looks, and probably making it more impressive looking.

[Sangel]

I suppose in the single-player campaign, Elvish Cavalry isn't required - after all, you can recruit horsemen who evolve into knights. They are human, right? They've always struck me as human.

However, I've always thought of elves having their own cavalry, and not just scouts. Perhaps there could be a choice of upgrades for the Scout - one is the Outrider, extremely fast but not so powerful, the other, the Cataphract, becomes slightly slowly but more durable in combat.

Or perhaps the Scout should be able to evolve into a Horse Archer...

Anyway, I've modified the picture somewhat to make it a little more distinct. The horse is now chestnut rather than bay, with a golden mane and tail. Not a major difference, I'll admit, but hopefully when all the changes are summed together, the overall contrast is obvious.

[turin]

the new horse color looks remarkably like the scouts color...maybe a dark brown, like the human horseman, would work.
horsemen are human, recently they recieved plastic surgery to take away the elf ears that they had.

[Boucman]

How about changing the horse to a white unicorn ?

[quartex]

We should have a Wesnoth FAQ for developers and artists, because the same ideas keep getting made over and over. It's not that they are bad, it's just that they have been rejected several times in the past.

Miyo talked about having some racial weaknesses, how orcs would never have a level 3 archer, elves would never have a level 3 scout (and similar weaknesses for undead and humans but I forget right now), the idea is that each race has one type of unit that isn't as powerful as other races. And a level 3 scout would either be broken, or really hard to get. In my experienc scouts were bad fighters, so it took a lot of work for them to get enough experience to makes level 2.

[Dave]

Personally, I have no problems with Elvish Scouts obtaining a third level. If there were no artists doing a set of 3rd level images for Elvish Scouts, I would be happy to have them only having 2 levels, but if there is an enthusiastic artist who wants to make a 3rd level version, I think it should be included.

It wouldn't necessarily be much more powerful than the Elvish Outrider though.

Also I agree that the images shown so far aren't quite different enough. Riding on a white unicorn could be good.

Also, it'd be great if someone could do the bowshot animation for the entire Elvish Scout advancement path

We should have a Wesnoth FAQ for developers and artists, because the same ideas keep getting made over and over. It's not that they are bad, it's just that they have been rejected several times in the past.

This is a good idea, any volunteers for maintaining it?

David

[miyo]

I don't like elves riding unicorn. Actually I am not so sure I like unicorns in Wesnoth at all (at least in/as common units)...

- Miyo

[fmunoz]

The best way to stop people requesting more and more new hight level units is to finally implement the max level experience bonus.
(Just add hidden new traits like)
100 xp: +2 hp
200 xp: +2 hp
300 xp: +1 damage (all attacks)
400 xp: +2 hp
500 xp: +2 hp
No healing (only if you got +2hp you those 2 hp more) just a "leveling" white flash nad adding a new trait named "veteran"
No more no less so people will not

[Darth Fool]

The best way to stop people requesting more and more new hight level units is to finally implement the max level experience bonus.
(Just add hidden new traits like)
100 xp: +2 hp
200 xp: +2 hp
300 xp: +1 damage (all attacks)
400 xp: +2 hp
500 xp: +2 hp
No healing (only if you got +2hp you those 2 hp more) just a "leveling" white flash nad adding a new trait named "veteran"
No more no less so people will not

Although I absolutely support the idea of implementing higher level units via a veteran trait,I doubt this will stem the flood of suggestions for new advancements. People play the game, say to themselves, "wouldn't it be cool if this unit advanced to this other cool new unit...." and of course, the nice thing is people can then go off and do that themselves, but they want to share this idea with the rest of the world, so...

One way, perhaps, to deal with this would be to abstract out the development tree from
the individual units into its own config file. Then different campaigns could have different
development trees... etc...I am not sure that is a good idea for other reasons, and maybe is one of those topics that has already been discussed, rejected, and would go into a FAQ on unit development issues....

so, I guess my rambling point is, as long as people are playing Wesnoth, I would expect to hear new proposals like this.

[Sangel]

I'd like to see the majority of units have second and third levels before we add in a "perpetual advancement" system. Also, leaders should have a 4th level, especially those with Leadership, so that they can actually be of some value to the units around them.

Anyway, there are other places this idea's being discussed. Back on track in this topic -

How about a 3rd Level "Elvish Gladerider", with only minor increments to attack and HP, but the ability "Ambush" as well? I'll see what I can do about a white horse / unicorn.

[Darth Fool]

oooh, here's another idea. No advanced units until all animations for its lower level units are done...that way if people want to make an advanced unit, at least the lower level will be finished off first. Still wouldn't prevent people from making their own advanced units...so, probably wouldn't work. Nothing like talking yourself out of your own ideas in public...

[Sangel]

Well, here's a version on a white horse (with golden mane). I haven't gotten around to adding a horn, but I'll see what I can figure out for that.

[turin]

Well, here's a version on a white horse (with golden mane). I haven't gotten around to adding a horn, but I'll see what I can figure out for that.

WHERE'S the new version with the white horse? there is no image!