Dunefolk Rework - Extra Units

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doofus-01
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Re: Dunefolk Rework - Extra Units

Post by doofus-01 »

The_Gnat wrote:
February 2nd, 2020, 6:35 am
I like the way you have shaded the weapons!
Thanks, I don't think I got the chakrams quite right, but it's harder to find a reference than you might think. At least it was for me.
beetlenaut wrote:
February 2nd, 2020, 6:59 am
This is nice work! I do have some concerns: Shouldn't his arms and torso be the same (or almost the same) color as the rest of him? Right now, they look like they belong to a completely different creature. Also, the naga portraits we already have include some scales on the arms and fingers. I understand that they are supposed to be a different race, but they may be too different at the moment, and adding those scales would help bridge the gap.
Skin and scales are often different, but I lightened the skin and added some scales to the elbow, maybe it looks more integrated.
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Re: Dunefolk Rework - Extra Units

Post by beetlenaut »

It might be a small change, but it's a lot better! As a bonus, it's easier to read the arms against the leather armor.
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Re: Dunefolk Rework - Extra Units

Post by Celtic_Minstrel »

beetlenaut wrote:
February 2nd, 2020, 6:59 am
I understand that they are supposed to be a different race,
Uhhh… since when? o.O
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Aldarisvet
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Re: Dunefolk Rework - Extra Units

Post by Aldarisvet »

Looking on portrait I see that Dirkfang (lvl1 southern naga) would have chakram instead of bow.
I found that this is a good decision.
But I've just sent an update of translation 'wesnoth-units' file for 1.15 and it is still archer Dirkfang there in desription and attacks.
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doofus-01
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Re: Dunefolk Rework - Extra Units

Post by doofus-01 »

Aldarisvet wrote:
February 9th, 2020, 11:21 am
Looking on portrait I see that Dirkfang (lvl1 southern naga) would have chakram instead of bow.
I found that this is a good decision.
But I've just sent an update of translation 'wesnoth-units' file for 1.15 and it is still archer Dirkfang there in desription and attacks.
It's a recent change (version-wise, not necessarily all that recent really), hopefully it will shake itself out, but if not please send a reminder. There are different people focusing on the graphics, text, and stats, so we may step on each other's toes. Also, this recent work would be for master, not 1.15.2.
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ghype
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Re: Dunefolk Rework - Extra Units

Post by ghype »

Here are my thoughts on the strider and naga line.


Strider.png
Strider.png (25.45 KiB) Viewed 1216 times


Generally speaking I am excited to see these dynamic stances for the this line.
Sadly I think the your latest is less dynamic as your previous one for the lv1 (shown on the third row). Also I prefer the headwear much more of the previous version.
The lv3 has some purple area over the shield which I cannot tell should represent. Generally speaking you developed a really nice shield design across the lv1 and lv2, but it is gone lost in the lv3.


Nagas.png
Nagas.png (42.53 KiB) Viewed 1216 times


This one was another surprising one. I mean, they look kind of a Naga but not really. I don't know when it was decided that they should have such drastic differences to normal nagas. Eitherway, quality wise they are excellent, really.
I just find that the proportions of this "new" naga species are inconsistence.
First of all, the head to body proportions of the lv1 Naga is very off. I provided my Naga and default Naga incomparison. I mean, yeah, i guess this naga can have a smaller (or less muscular) body, but then it shouldn't have an oversized head. The chakram it self feels too small. I believe you gave even your lv1 chakram archaic unit a more normal sized chakram. All these things makes the lv1 naga rather look like a lv0 then a lv1.
I do like they new body type for the Chakram Naga lv2 and lv3. The morphology fits them very well. There is nothing I can say against them. Good Job.
What I do not understand then however, If you said you wanted them to more drastic differences in appearance to default naga, why the lv2 and lv3 archer branch have the same morphology as the default naga. (or at least they appear). Even the headwear of the lv3 naga is very similar to lv3 default naga. Thinning the chest width and taking a way muscle or width from the arms would fix the morphology problem. Overall, the archer branch you designed look more like advanced for the Naga hunter and not for the Dunefolk Naga. Would be nice if one of the advancements would have different stance so it doesn't repeat.

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Re: Dunefolk Rework - Extra Units

Post by Celtic_Minstrel »

Just noting that I don't think the Dunefolk nagas should be a different species. They could have different colourations, perhaps - some colours may be more common in the south while others are more common in the north, just as red hair is more common in certain regions in the real world. However, they shouldn't look like a completely different species in my opinion.

I'm not exactly sure what makes them look like a different species, though? All those sprites look like the same species to me, but I'm not quite sure if they include the original nagas?
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doofus-01
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Re: Dunefolk Rework - Extra Units

Post by doofus-01 »

Celtic_Minstrel wrote:
March 29th, 2020, 6:24 pm
I'm not exactly sure what makes them look like a different species, though? All those sprites look like the same species to me, but I'm not quite sure if they include the original nagas?
Some of them are the original, but yeah, I don't see the problem either.
ghype wrote:
March 27th, 2020, 6:33 pm
I mean, they look kind of a Naga but not really. I don't know when it was decided that they should have such drastic differences to normal nagas. Eitherway, quality wise they are excellent, really.
I just find that the proportions of this "new" naga species are inconsistence.
First of all, the head to body proportions of the lv1 Naga is very off. I provided my Naga and default Naga incomparison. I mean, yeah, i guess this naga can have a smaller (or less muscular) body, but then it shouldn't have an oversized head.
Two issues:
1. We don't want sprites to look too similar, or the player can get confused during the game. So a new unit has to be more than minor edits of an existing one.
2. The new nagas should play a different role than the existing ones, otherwise what's the point? The footpad and HI don't look that similar, but they are both the same species.
ghype wrote:
March 27th, 2020, 6:33 pm
What I do not understand then however, If you said you wanted them to more drastic differences in appearance to default naga, why the lv2 and lv3 archer branch have the same morphology as the default naga. (or at least they appear). Even the headwear of the lv3 naga is very similar to lv3 default naga. Thinning the chest width and taking a way muscle or width from the arms would fix the morphology problem. Overall, the archer branch you designed look more like advanced for the Naga hunter and not for the Dunefolk Naga. Would be nice if one of the advancements would have different stance so it doesn't repeat.
The stats were similar enough, and the sprite differences were enough to avoid any confusion, that it seems good enough to me, none of the differences are all that drastic. As far as I know, the stats for the new nagas aren't finalized, maybe it will be thinner-limbed in the end. Yes, the pose of one of them should be changed at some point.
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Re: Dunefolk Rework - Extra Units

Post by ghype »

As I clarified in my other post, I am more familiar with these sprites.
Now that I saw you animated the skirmisher it grew on me.

But if there was one thing I would change would be the diameter of the chakram ring of the lv1. But is looks very small ... small as it barely do any damage.
I tried to draw one bigger with a pixel. But I failed. So yeah, ...

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