Dunefolk Rework - Base Units

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Vendanna
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Re: Dunefolk Facelift: Redux 2.0

Post by Vendanna » March 14th, 2019, 12:45 am

Yeah, the unit database you linked Pentarctagon. because let's be real if we have to check ALL the units changes to the dunefolk it would be hard to do with the hard limit of 5 images per post, when you can just check them in a web then come back to read the input, etc... (don't recall how is "pestaña de navegador" in english atm).

but whatever is nice, also I totally agree that Colour differenciation would help to understand which units are lawful and which ones are liminal. :)
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The_Gnat
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Re: Dunefolk Facelift: Redux 2.0

Post by The_Gnat » March 14th, 2019, 9:31 pm

Vendanna wrote:
March 14th, 2019, 12:45 am
Yeah, the unit database you linked Pentarctagon. because let's be real if we have to check ALL the units changes to the dunefolk it would be hard to do with the hard limit of 5 images per post, when you can just check them in a web then come back to read the input, etc... (don't recall how is "pestaña de navegador" in english atm).

but whatever is nice, also I totally agree that Colour differenciation would help to understand which units are lawful and which ones are liminal. :)
Yeah thanks for the input! I talked to ghype and I think he has decided that the easiest thing to do will be just put multiple sprites in a single image for comparison purposes and ease of viewing. Overall, though, it doesn't matter that much as long as we get to see cool new DF units xD .

Also I agree as well that slight colour differentials would make more clear the alignment. Currently the rover, rider, herbalist are limited so if perhaps there colour scheme was more similar it would be easier to recognise. Also though I really like the herbalist sprite I don't know if purple is an ideal colour.

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ghype
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Re: Dunefolk Rework - Base Units

Post by ghype » March 25th, 2019, 8:22 pm

The main post was updated with all images and side by side comparisons.

Thanks for your patient and enjoy!
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Re: Dunefolk Rework - Base Units

Post by Celtic_Minstrel » March 26th, 2019, 1:23 am

I like the new herbalist line and the updated rider line (though the bow looks weird in the L3 rider). I'm a little put off by the fact that you scaled a sprite down for the spearguard, as sprites typically don't scale well. I'm also a bit wary of using Kwandulin's sprites as a base, mainly on the grounds that his wyvern riders weren't very good (maybe the ones you actually used are much better than the wyvern riders).

And of course, like I mentioned elsewhere, I disapprove of the sunderer/cataphract changes.
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ghype
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Re: Dunefolk Visual Rework

Post by ghype » March 26th, 2019, 7:20 pm

Celtic_Minstrel wrote:
March 26th, 2019, 1:23 am
I like the new herbalist line and the updated rider line
I am glad you like the herbalist/rider updates. The lv3 bow indeed can get some improvements and I already know what is wrong about it. As mentioned we are currently figuring out a away how to introduce the initial versions of sunderer/cataphracts back. Hence they might loose their current weapon and revert back to spear. we will get updates on that.
Celtic_Minstrel wrote:
March 26th, 2019, 1:23 am
I'm a little put off by the fact that you scaled a sprite down for the spearguard
well to be fair, i did not only that. but that was they easiest way to illustrate what i did. obviously the sprite looks jsut as great as it did before. it's just not that tall and bulky as it used to be.
Celtic_Minstrel wrote:
March 26th, 2019, 1:23 am
I'm also a bit wary of using Kwandulin's sprites as a base
Well, Kwandulin's sprites actually are Sleepwalkers sprites edited by Kwandulin as himself explains that in one of his earlier comments. So really what we working with are still Sleepwalkers sprites which shouldn't be a barrier for using them. Here is Kwandulins comment on that:
Kwandulin wrote:
November 22nd, 2018, 4:49 pm
Sprites are made by sleepwalker, mine are just edits of his work
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Re: Dunefolk Rework - Base Units

Post by Caladbolg » March 26th, 2019, 8:33 pm

Nice work, I really like most of the changes :D Herbalist line is incredible.
Soldier line is the one I'm least excited about. Nothing wrong with the sprites, they're nicely done, it's just that I preferred the lightly armored concept as in the original lvl3 and 4. On the other hand, these have a samurai feel to them, so I suppose they'll grow on me. Due to all the bulky armor they also look more like leaders than the Skirmirshers which just got leadership, so that's possibly something to take note of. If Skirmirshers are the leader unit, they should look most leader-like.
Maybe just swapping the sprites would work? Now that Skirmirshers are no longer lithe swordsman, but more like military commanders, the Swordsman line sprites would fit. And Swordsman/Blademaster could be well represented by Skirmirsher line sprites, just holding a sword. The only issue then is the matter of the shield. Just something to consider if others feel the same.

Yeah, Rider lvl3's bow looks odd. On first glance, it's as if it's on the guy's back, but when you look closer, he's holding it. Such an active stance is really odd and would be very tiring to keep, and it might even look like the bow is just floating next to him if he's standing on a green background (as it would make his thin outstretched hand harder to read).

I'm not entirely sure which unit the fifth horse in the Raider + Sunderer section is supposed to be (the one below the other 4). It looks like the third horse with just a chainmail over his front body. In any case, it look really odd. With chainmail only in the front, it visually separates the horse in two, almost making it seem like it's a two-legged horse-like creature in chainmail in the front, with a horse-legged soldier in the back. As we don't see the front legs merge with the torso of the horse, and there's a slight curvature to them, it also looks like the horse has got a slight case of knock knees. So if the unit will have chainmail only in the front, it needs to be a bit more readable.

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ghype
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Re: Dunefolk Rework - Base Units

Post by ghype » March 27th, 2019, 11:55 am

Caladbolg wrote:
March 26th, 2019, 8:33 pm
Soldier line is the one I'm least excited about. Nothing wrong with the sprites, they're nicely done, it's just that I preferred the lightly armored concept as in the original lvl3 and 4.
I think the biggest problem the swordsman/bladesmaster/warmaster had in terms of sprite design was that the unit shared tank-like stats with physical blade/pierce res on 20%. Thats the reason why sleepwalker probably decided the unit needs a facelift. The lv4 is still open for interpretation. Removing the shield for the lv4 and adding a 2nd blade not only would open up the sprite but also create a connection to the old lv4. I guess thats should be also ok as the lv4 is no longer advanced from the lv3 but treated more like aux/campaign units. I guess thats what we will do next.
Caladbolg wrote:
March 26th, 2019, 8:33 pm
Due to all the bulky armor they also look more like leaders than the Skirmirshers which just got leadership,
Actually they now look more like proper tank which is his primary function in combat. You can say that the old swordsman hat sultan-like atributes but not every "king" has leading qualities in combats.

Caladbolg wrote:
March 26th, 2019, 8:33 pm
Yeah, Rider lvl3's bow looks odd.
I will first position his bow properly, right now its hadn+bow is placed way to far up. Maybe it will look better once thats fixed. If not we can change the stance completly

Caladbolg wrote:
March 26th, 2019, 8:33 pm
I'm not entirely sure which unit the fifth horse in the Raider + Sunderer section is supposed to be (the one below the other 4).
That sprite is just a concept as i have had 1 sunderer with no chainmal and another one with some parts of the old sprite which still fits (other parts don't fit as i changed the horse. As pointed out, the entire horse armour is still in concept. The sunderer and cataphrakt are actually well documented historically regarding how they looked like. I'might still need some directions for the Raider and Swiftrider horse armour ...
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Re: Dunefolk Rework - Base Units

Post by ghype » March 29th, 2019, 10:25 am

Celtic_Minstrel wrote:
March 26th, 2019, 1:23 am
I'm a little put off by the fact that you scaled a sprite down for the spearguard, as sprites typically don't scale well.
A thing I only now realised, if you check Sleepwalker post you can see that the spearguard and spear master sprites he created were never meant to be lv2 and lv3 but lv1 and lv2.
So your concern of me using the lv3 spearmaster as a lv2 is no needed.


Another question.
Why was warmaster removed as lv4 advancement to bladesmaster? was it a balance decisions?
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Re: Dunefolk Rework - Base Units

Post by Celtic_Minstrel » March 29th, 2019, 12:17 pm

My concern was about your statement of "scaling down" only, not of using an L3 sprite as L2.

Isn't warmaster an optional advancement from... probably blademaster?
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ghype
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Re: Dunefolk Rework - Base Units

Post by ghype » March 29th, 2019, 3:29 pm

I guess it then can remain as it currently is
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Re: Dunefolk Rework - Base Units

Post by catagent101 » March 30th, 2019, 12:09 am

For the burner it seems to me the original sprite had donned a protective cap of some sort (albeit with a few hairs sticking out) rather than exposed hair. I say this because given these units are spewing flames at their enemies at close range, it seems like without protection their hair would catch fire.

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Re: Dunefolk Rework - Base Units

Post by ghype » March 30th, 2019, 7:46 am

catagent101 wrote:
March 30th, 2019, 12:09 am
For the burner it seems to me the original sprite had donned a protective cap of some sort
It's a good guess but sadly that's not the case. It's just plain (weird) looking hair. If it would be be protective gear than it would make sense for the lv ups to have that as well, but they have cloth coats of some sort. Maybe it's some special coating but that wasn't elaborated by Sleepwalker. It seems to be simple fabric.
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Re: Dunefolk Rework - Base Units

Post by beetlenaut » March 30th, 2019, 10:53 am

I like everything, but I can't read the healer's arm and recipe book. I didn't know it was a book until I read the text.
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Re: Dunefolk Rework - Base Units

Post by ghype » March 30th, 2019, 11:24 am

I guess i could enhance the outline of the hand to over the book.
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Re: Dunefolk Rework - Base Units

Post by ghype » April 1st, 2019, 7:57 am



Warmaster:

This is the unit with the most changes. I made resemble more with the old warmaster with dorpping his shield for a 2nd blade. the skirt and blade accessiors were taken over and the helmet was open up to distinguish it from the lv3. alternatively, i could open up the helmet of the lv3 instead of the lv4. thoughts?
warmaster-6.png
warmaster-6.png (7.55 KiB) Viewed 510 times


Rider:

As we are are having 3 very different mounts advance from the lv1 rider, we tried to make it ressemble as much as possible with every single lv up. It resembles now the sunderer and raider more, without loosing the visual qualities of the swiftrider. What i did was to basically make the turban look more protected.
rider-new-6.png
rider-new-6.png (6.7 KiB) Viewed 510 times


Windrider:

This unit had small issues with the bow. While some suggest to change its stance entirely to something more normal, i decided to not do that as this what sleepwalker visually had in mind when designing this unit - probably to make it stand out more to other mounts. So all i did i moved the hand+bow closer to body so the arm doesnt seem so stretched.
windrider-new-4.png
windrider-new-4.png (7.87 KiB) Viewed 510 times


Female Scorcher:

This was a small update by Gnat where he added a bit more darker pixels around the face to create the impression for the female to have more hair as the male one.
scorcher-new-female-6.png
scorcher-new-female-6.png (9.46 KiB) Viewed 510 times


Alchemist:
beetlenaut wrote:
March 30th, 2019, 10:53 am
I like everything, but I can't read the healer's arm and recipe book. I didn't know it was a book until I read the text.
This should be much clearer now
poisoner-7.png
poisoner-7.png (6.37 KiB) Viewed 510 times
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