More sigils for Wesnoth!

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johndh
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Re: More sigils for Wesnoth!

Post by johndh »

I'm not a fan of the saurian sigils. Sure, when we think about saurians we think about lizards (they're even named after lizards, after all), but I doubt they think of themselves that way any more than we think of ourselves as apes -- a technical truth, but hardly something that defines us or that we use as an emblem. It's been mentioned that Saurian culture values mathematics, astronomy, and astrology, and uses them as means of fortune telling, so I think an emblem having to do with stars, constellations, and/or sacred geometry might be fitting. They may see different constellations and astrological signs as having different properties and use them as runes, so they may have a constellation of protection, one of prosperity, etc.
It's spelled "definitely", not "definately". "Defiantly" is a different word entirely.

Andrettin
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Re: More sigils for Wesnoth!

Post by Andrettin »

johndh wrote:I'm not a fan of the saurian sigils. Sure, when we think about saurians we think about lizards (they're even named after lizards, after all), but I doubt they think of themselves that way any more than we think of ourselves as apes -- a technical truth, but hardly something that defines us or that we use as an emblem. It's been mentioned that Saurian culture values mathematics, astronomy, and astrology, and uses them as means of fortune telling, so I think an emblem having to do with stars, constellations, and/or sacred geometry might be fitting. They may see different constellations and astrological signs as having different properties and use them as runes, so they may have a constellation of protection, one of prosperity, etc.
Indeed, very good points.

Wussel
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Re: More sigils for Wesnoth!

Post by Wussel »

Yep and in India they worship a monkeygod called Hanuman. For me saurians look more like shamanistic culture. Which should go nicely with animal kingdom. But please draw whatever you like.

Any ideas for Nagas? What else is missing?

I made some dwarf and desert sigils. The desert could be Chalifa (Kalifa?) or two sun elves. Therefore I picked 2 suns guarding a cactus. This time new stuff is at the top.

sigil-all.png

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Celtic_Minstrel
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Re: More sigils for Wesnoth!

Post by Celtic_Minstrel »

Honestly, most of these really don't seem interesting. The sceptre and tree ones are nice, I guess, and maybe the "mage" ones, but the rest are kinda bland somehow. The merfolk ones are ugly and overly busy, and most of the others (particularly drakes, saurians, and trolls) seem to be lacking imagination. The outlaw and orc ones are okay, I guess, except for those two weird star-shaped ones. The undead ones look more like pirate sigils to me (as in, human pirates, not necromancers). The single hammer isn't bad, but the hammer stars are kind of weird, as are the cactus stars. The single cactus (with or without suns) is okay, but it's weird for the cactus to be yellow, and also it really doesn't reflect Khalifate at all (though it might work for the Quenoth). The round elf ones are, again, weird, though they're at least the least weird of the round/star ones (the second one actually isn't all that bad).

For drakes, you could use motifs such as fire, volcanos, hammers, an anvil, or the rams-horn shape they use on their helmets. For saurians, I think a pentacle or similar motif might work well, but if you dislike some of the other associations that might hold, then you could consider other simple geometric shapes. For example, pick one or more basic shapes (eg square, triangle, circle) and nest them within each other. For trolls, a motif based on mountains might work.

I know this might sound incredible, but I don't think a skull is the best choice for undead. Unfortunately I can't think of anything else, though. A trident may not be the best choice for the merfolk, either (though my problem with it may also be partly because it's yellow) - other possibilities include waves, kelp, or various types of sea shells (which you already used, but there are also other types to consider). The black eye is fitting for orcs, but your design somehow doesn't seem very interesting.

I'm not sure if nagas need sigils, and I can't think of anything they'd use anyway. Khalifate could perhaps use some alchemical symbols (due to the hakim and naffat)? Not sure.
Author of The Black Cross of Aleron campaign and Default++ era.
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johndh
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Re: More sigils for Wesnoth!

Post by johndh »

I have to echo most of what Celtic_Minstrel just said. Many of these are too "busy" and just don't look very iconic. Additionally, many of the follow the same pattern (one thing, several of that thing, or many of that thing arranged in a circle), so more variety would be nice. Have you looked at some examples of real-life heraldry? You might find some good inspiration there.

I'll be referencing this thread a few times here: viewtopic.php?f=32&t=26295#p368855

For the non-human races, you may be thinking too much like a human. We've seen drake "writing" (see link) before, and it kinda gives an idea of their aesthetic choices. A drake "flag" would be less likely to be a face sewn/dyed onto a cloth, and more likely to be a string of different rock beads, claws, and/or shells, so I could only see them as a group having a "sigil" if they were serving as part of a human(oid) military, like as a mercenary company or a vassal state.

I agree with C_M's suggestion for something very geometric for the saurians. Hermetic symbols come to mind. Perhaps some concentric geometric shapes with stars at the vertices to symbolize astrology. Also, see link above for saurian symbology.

For dwarves, you could incorporate some other symbols for variety, like a mountain, a mining pick, a helmet, or an axe. We also know dwarves like runes, specifically Elder Futhark.

I get that you may have chosen a cutlass to symbolize the outlaws because it has an association with piracy, but that's because it's a maritime thing, not because it has anything to do with crime or rebellion. Just off the top of my head, how about a mask, cloak, and/or dagger, or a rising fist, a broken chain, a broken crown, some defacing of the Scepter? Consider that outlaws are not normally a very organized force, so it would likely be something that can be hastily hand-made. If you wanted to get a bit cheeky, you could use a stylized version of the Wesnothian letter 'A' (see link above for Wesnothian alphabets) in a circle as a parody of the anarchy symbol.

I don't know a whole lot about the Khalifate, but going with a desert motif, how about a lion, sun, cobra, falcon, eagle, or roc?

For the Quenoth, I like the elegance of the regular elven sigils, but perhaps adapted to a desert plant like a date palm or agave?
It's spelled "definitely", not "definately". "Defiantly" is a different word entirely.

Wussel
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Re: More sigils for Wesnoth!

Post by Wussel »

I would not apply heraldic rules here. The sigils are meant to be for national institutions sanctioned by the leader not for individual families. As I said before: The round things are symbols for specific types of magic. Think of the symbols as kind of homing devices for spells and wards and such things maybe even magical transponders. Ever woundered, why the fog of war is lifted so often?

Please feel free to draw you own ideas and post your alternatives here. A picture says so much more than all the words.

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