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Golems

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What golem idea is the worst?

Emerald
1
3%
Sapphire
1
3%
Ruby
2
6%
Diamond
3
9%
All are stupid!
21
60%
All are OK.
7
20%
 
Total votes: 35

Drake Pillager
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Post by Drake Pillager »

=) I like the idea of golems, they're the most expanded of all fantasy creatures appart from perhaps dragons and make great mage spawn.
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Circon
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Post by Circon »

I dislike the idea of golems, they are generic, stupid, a clone of undead, and as to "mage spawn", Wesnoth has no explicit magic, has undead already, and is not D&D.

"most expanded"??
Fortify
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Post by Fortify »

While not fond of gemstone Golems I think the concept of golems as a special campaign unit is good. They would make great minions of a neutral mage.

As far as being part of multiplayer I do not see any logic or benefit here. Unless someone could put forth a really good argument for Golems in MP then don't do it.
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Jetrel
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Post by Jetrel »

Fortify wrote:While not fond of gemstone Golems I think the concept of golems as a special campaign unit is good. They would make great minions of a neutral mage.

As far as being part of multiplayer I do not see any logic or benefit here. Unless someone could put forth a really good argument for Golems in MP then don't do it.
Agreed. I actually wouldn't mind seeing decent golems used for those two wizards in the mountain in HttT - instead of trolls. However, they would need to be very well drawn...
LibrarianBrent
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Post by LibrarianBrent »

Circon wrote:...Wesnoth has no explicit magic...
Wow, the Mage and all its branches, Saurian Tribalist and its branches, and the Elven Shaman and all its branches must have been cut from the new version!
dms
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Post by dms »

'No explicit magic' means you don't explictly do something to use magic - it works automatically. Like always curing nearby units or being just another thing to attack with.

In a campaign a golem unit wouldn't need explicit magic - For example one way would be to use WML to make it appear when its mage is recalled and disappear if the mage dies.
Last edited by dms on December 6th, 2004, 3:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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turin
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Post by turin »

that would be explicit magic IMHO... :)
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dms
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Post by dms »

I thought the idea behind implicit magic was that the game does it for you so Dave doesn't have to create a new UI to do it. :) (and, more to the point, the game stays easy to use)

I think my example qualifies, since you wouldn't have to choose (or know about) a 'create golem' option, it would just happen.
quartex
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Post by quartex »

Dms, you example is valid. Explicit magic may not fit the theme of wesnoth, but many people use WML to strech what the game can do. Having a mage with 2 golems as side-kicks who die when he does is a great example. By explicit magic, we mean casting spells, you don't cast magic missle or lightning bolt in wesnoth, it's just all implicitly part of different attacks. Having a mage summon monsters when you enter a room, might be called explicit, but it is certainly something you could do with WML.
Circon
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Post by Circon »

dms wrote:'No explicit magic' means you don't explictly do something to use magic - it works automatically. Like always curing nearby units or being just another thing to attack with.
^^what he said^^
Explicit is when the game says "You have 17 heal points, select one or more units that you want to heal" or "You have enough mana to cast Fireball. Select a target area" in a very meta-game sort of way.
dms wrote:In a campaign a golem unit wouldn't need explicit magic - For example one way would be to use WML to make it appear when its mage is recalled and disappear if the mage dies.
Oh, you want to make it a sidekick?:twisted: Suddenly I have absolutely no problems. :D That just sounds cool for a campaign, with a mage and his trusty golem sidekick battling the minions of evil... Mage can level up, but the golem is the one that kicks butt.
Na'enthos
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Post by Na'enthos »

Golems.. I think they'd be best as campaign-only creatures. I prefer the standard varieties over the ones mentioned in the poll, as well.
Rhuvaen
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Knalgan Golems

Post by Rhuvaen »

I disagree with what's been said here about Golems being controlled by magic and thus subject to summoning etc. Golems are constructs (and certainly not undead!) - whether or not animated by magic is secondary - and I think they should belong in the KNALGAN ALLIANCE!

The Knalgans still have the outlaws (which, according to varying opinion, are either to be removed from the faction or are there to stay), and I think they could be made more consistent with the addition of a Golem and some unit reshuffling.

I never quite "bought" the idea that the Dwarvish Stalwart is so indestructible (especially compared to the unit called "Steelclad" which also implies heavy armor) - make this unit idea with steadfast a Golem and give him Thug-like impact damage. That be one unit of the outlaws less in the Knalgans and the Stalwart anomaly is got rid off in the process, too.
cobretti
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Re: Knalgan Golems

Post by cobretti »

Rhuvaen wrote:(...) make this unit idea with steadfast a Golem and give him Thug-like impact damage. That be one unit of the outlaws less in the Knalgans and the Stalwart anomaly is got rid off in the process, too.
... And then, we have yet another tank unit with impact attack. I don't agree.

What the knalgans need, if anything, is some kind of support unit, IMHO. Stalwarts are already useful units to protect important places and give you some mobility with other units.

Also, I don't find any good reason to replace the outlaws for some other kind of creatures: It doesn't make sense. If you find a good type of dwarvish unit to put in, nice, but just changing the companions is not better than the current state, and at least this is well known.
Monkey
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Post by Monkey »

Reply to the topic: In my opinion outlaws should be removed from the dwarves and placed in their own faction.

But I'm posting this here because I'm working on some golems, it started with the idea that mages summoning units like trolls was unreal. I agree. The dwarves golem idea may be good, but need to be rethinked. Yes, dwarves are great craftsman and they probably could build a machine controled by them that could aid them in battle, but do you really think that it would be good to add machinery and robotics (unit that control itself) to the game? Maybe the dwarves could build some primitive siege machines, but golems seem way to much. I already don't like that thunderer unit. If we were to place wesnoth in history, it would be around V century. In feudalism (controling land = controling villages), chilvalry (the knights are not from the army of the king, there is not even an absolutism king, if there was he would have army). The power in wesnoth is land, tributes, there is no burguesy class (to help the king acquire power). It's way before the creation of a gun. Bah, let me stop talking about history, I get carried away. But even in fantasy, it's hard to see guns, and if there is it was probably made by someone who wanted to make the game more "interesting", but I think it makes the game worse.

The golems I'm making are not made from gems either, but I'm thinking about one that is made of different materials. level 1 stone, then at level bronze, and at level 3 iron. All of them are controled by magic, if not directly controled, they are enchanted just like in D&D, the golem is enchanted and obeys the order of it's master, like "kill them". the other golem I'm already doing is one that is a walking armor without a soldier. at level one he is just an armor with sword and shields, but as he upgrades the level, it's magic raises, and he is able to wield a numer of weapons at the same time. the description is something like "these golems are made only of weapons and armors of fallen soldiers, it obeys the orders of the master that gave it life, powerfull mages can create golems that wield numerously weapons at the same time.". And the other idea was elementals, fire, water, earth and wind elementals. Who would also obey the orders of it's master, but would be living things, they would be summoned, not created.
These golems are meant to be used on the heir to the throne campaign, but can be used by anyone. Let's see if they become OK. I'll post the ones I make here and we can all modify them later until they become good.
I'm not a number, I'm a free monkey
Monkey
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Post by Monkey »

I'm making the base image, the other ones should be easy to do since he doesn't have arms or anything, but I need some help with the last helmet
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golem-livingarmor_thirdtry.png
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golem-livingarmor_secondtry.png
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golem-livingarmor_firsttry.png
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I'm not a number, I'm a free monkey
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