New bigmaps: UMC needs

[zookeeper]

But was there a decision to get rid of it, since it played no role in the campaign?

Yeah. Pretty much the same reason why I also removed Glamdrol and Rumyr from the northwest of the HttT map; they're not even referred to in mainline, so I'd rather not keep them canonical. Also, while geography obviously stays constant, some cities will naturally have been founded later than others, so a mainline map not featuring a particular city doesn't mean that it can't be there; it just means that it was either founded after the time period which the map represents, or that it was of no particular interest.

For example, Halstead won't appear in the HttT map (it does in the latest one I posted, but I've since removed it) because it gets destroyed more than a decade earlier, but will appear in the Liberty map. Similarly, the towns of Dallben and Delwyn won't appear in any maps depicting the area hundreds of years prior to Liberty.

[SkyOne]

Uh, really?
I hope that changing is still available... (the maps are really nice, but those changes will totally destroy all of my campaigns.)

request 1 (strong request):
We really need a forest where Green Forest used be located with similar shape (hope to be named as Greenwood), beside Dorset. Otherwise, we have to stop developing FoaP... But I don’t want to waste the tasks of co-workers, including the translators.

request 2 (hoping):
For Drake and Naga campaigns, I need another river (east to west) at the south of the Bark River, and if it is possible, adding an island will be great for my drakes...

This is what we are using:

Spoiler:

So making the land wider (north to south) at the north of the Heat Mountains will be my hope... But it is up to you.


Best Regards

[Iris]

Yeah. Pretty much the same reason why I also removed Glamdrol and Rumyr from the northwest of the HttT map; they're not even referred to in mainline, so I'd rather not keep them canonical.

To be honest, I don’t find this to be enough of an excuse to remove them, since they could have been explored in UMC otherwise. (In fact, AtS makes a lot of references to Glamdrol, or the area which used to be Glamdrol, after the Fall.)

[UnwiseOwl]

I like the fact that the maps included cities and areas not used in campaigns, since it gives a sense of greater immersion and a bigger world going on. It gives UMC authors something to start from and work with too. But the biggest reason would have to be to avoid filling the map with MMBW, to borrow a phrase.

PS. If Turin hadn't moved the IE to Orbivm, I could have had pretty maps for my campaigns too. Sadface.

[AI]

To be honest, I don’t find this to be enough of an excuse to remove them, since they could have been explored in UMC otherwise. (In fact, AtS makes a lot of references to Glamdrol, or the area which used to be Glamdrol, after the Fall.)

I've used the general area in TDH too.

[zookeeper]

Since everyone seems to want Glamdrol and/or Romyr back, I can do that. Are both needed? Having two "orcish tribal capital"s right next to each other doesn't seem to make all that much sense, so if there's need for both, then the other ought to be dubbed a smaller settlement and the other one the capital. If both are not needed, I'll keep Glamdrol and move it a little bit further inland unless it's specifically needed on the coast (which I doubt).

Uh, really?
I hope that changing is still available... (the maps are really nice, but those changes will totally destroy all of my campaigns.)

request 1 (strong request):
We really need a forest where Green Forest used be located with similar shape (hope to be named as Greenwood), beside Dorset. Otherwise, we have to stop developing FoaP... But I don’t want to waste the tasks of co-workers, including the translators.

Well, sure, I can put a forest in the middle of Lintanir Forest, Barren Plains, Lmarig and Dorset. It'll be pretty small, but I don't think that ought to be a problem. If you need a river flowing from the forest (or the adjacent hills) to the eastern shore, I think I can do that too.

request 2 (hoping):
For Drake and Naga campaigns, I need another river (east to west) at the south of the Bark River, and if it is possible, adding an island will be great for my drakes...

Does it really need to be another river? Would a small river from the Heart Mountains joining River Bork west of Prestim do?

Doesn't Bilheld work as the island you need? There's drakes there in DW, after all. If not, then how far off the coast could it be placed?

This is what we are using:

Spoiler:

farnorth-southeast.jpg

So making the land wider (north to south) at the north of the Heat Mountains will be my hope... But it is up to you.

Yeah, I think that's one aspect that I'm not really ready to change. I spent quite a bit of time reconciling the geography of the Far North with Wesnoth/Northlands in a way which I felt wasn't as silly as the previous attempts as far as SotBE is concerned (large human armies invading the Far North, a large human city there), and removing the large stretch of filler lowlands between them was rather integral for that.

[Iris]

If both are not needed, I'll keep Glamdrol and move it a little bit further inland unless it's specifically needed on the coast (which I doubt).

The specific location with regards to the sea is not really important for me since post-Fall geography is deliberately vague anyway and it is mostly referred to as the Bay of Glamdrol (resulting from the cataclysm’s shoreline reshaping or something.). It can be pretty much anywhere around the same latitude.

[SkyOne]

Uh, really?
I hope that changing is still available... (the maps are really nice, but those changes will totally destroy all of my campaigns.)

request 1 (strong request):
We really need a forest where Green Forest used be located with similar shape (hope to be named as Greenwood), beside Dorset. Otherwise, we have to stop developing FoaP... But I don’t want to waste the tasks of co-workers, including the translators.

Well, sure, I can put a forest in the middle of Lintanir Forest, Barren Plains, Lmarig and Dorset. It'll be pretty small, but I don't think that ought to be a problem.

Whew... Thank you so much.
The FoaP campaign is kind of like “A story in Greenwood (Green Forest)”. There is an independent kingdom, and it is spread as northern Greenwood and the southern Greenwood (two major castles). So if it is going to be really small, I may have to do something in the story. So hopefully, it won’t be too small...

I also forgot to mention the need of Mountains of Dorth. Turuk (in FoaP), drake lord, the story leader (the princess), and a Dragon, all of them live in the Mountains of Dorth. And we use 8 scenarios/maps in the mountains (Turuk becomes the emperor of Mountains of Dorth at the end). So I will really appreciate if you move back them a bit to the north. It is too close to the Heart Mountains, I think.

In addition, how about changing the city name, Dorset, to Dorest, Dorseth, or something else at this time? There is Dorset county in England: http://www.dorsetforyou.com/

If you need a river flowing from the forest (or the adjacent hills) to the eastern shore, I think I can do that too.

Yes, please. It will rescue my naga campaign. Thank you.

Does it really need to be another river? Would a small river from the Heart Mountains joining River Bork west of Prestim do?

For me, yes, but it is for my naga and drake campaigns that are not really important on BfW, I think. So if it is impossible, I can handle it, modifying story, keeping to use future-old BG map, abandoning them, etc...

Doesn't Bilheld work as the island you need? There's drakes there in DW, after all. If not, then how far off the coast could it be placed?

On my BG map, there is an island at the south of Bilheld Island. That is where all of my drakes live on Brave Wings campaign. The party on it travels to the east with a mermaid along the river that I am talking about, then they go to the north (for a reason). When they return to the Island, they fly along the Bork River and encounter different enemies on the way. So there is a location problem if I use Bilheld Island as their home.

Also, if you can add, I need the city of Farzi where Master Zooke and Sapient (in RotM) live on my naga campaign, and at the east of it, there are mountains where Zooke's wife and daughter lives with yetis.


I don’t really expect that you can accept all of them, though. Those are just my hopes.

----
EDIT (on Feb.8th):
Hmmm... I keep thinking the story adjustments after I found those changes. Actually, even you add the Greenwood/forest, it is still too close to Lintanir Forest. I mean that it is a bit strange that elves in Lintanir Forest and in Greenwood don’t relate each other much. So is it possible to cut down the north part of Lintanir Forest a little bit on the new far north BG map? If Lintanir Forest is at the north of Greenwood, it won’t be a problem by changing northern Greenwood to Lintanir Forest in the campaign, but I don’t think it is a good attempt...


thanks
best regards

[zookeeper]

Updated the map in the first post with some revisions. Added quite a few changes to the far north, most notably the Greenwood forest (between Silent Forest and Lintanir) and the unnamed river flowing from it to the bay in the east. Smaller changes include the area around the mouth of River Bork (which was tweaked to accommodate AOI) and the removal of the small unnamed patch of forest south of Melmog, and the addition of another island south of Bilheld.

[beetlenaut]

I have a map of Borstep in my UMC campaign, and it is up in the mountains overlooking the plains. Your map shows it solidly on the plain, so it would be nice if you could move it south a bit. (Assuming you're not already done with the map.)

[SkyOne]

Updated the map in the first post with some revisions. Added quite a few changes to the far north, most notably the Greenwood forest (between Silent Forest and Lintanir) and the unnamed river flowing from it to the bay in the east. Smaller changes include the area around the mouth of River Bork (which was tweaked to accommodate AOI) and the removal of the small unnamed patch of forest south of Melmog, and the addition of another island south of Bilheld.

Thank you so much for the additions. Those are really helpful.

On the new farnorth.png, how about adding another orcish city at the north of Greenwood, between Mourned Hills and Barren Plains? There is Grisbi (and Castelfrang) on the current farnorth.png and just Grisbi on early_fornorth.jpg of The Founding of Borstep campaign (by beetlenaut). I actually need an orcish city whatever the name is, the same or bigger than Lmarig (if possible).

SotBE is in the 9th Century, TFoB is in the 1st Century, and all of mine are in the late 2nd to the 3rd Century of Wesnoth. So it won’t be a big issue (I can add it myself), but it seems that the area is still open a bit...


Best Regard

[tr0ll]

On the other hand i think it is believable that orcish cities could be planted and wiped out in only one generation, due to their society's leadership by fighting and its changing alliances (as TFoB shows). UMC mapping consistency matters mostly if your campaign counts on continuity or old buildings remaining in place and occupied. I guess it would be nice to be able to use zookeeper's high quality maps out of the box though

[Kanzil]

It would be nice if we had some named peaks, and perhaps famous battlegrounds. Maybe Wesnoth's provinces could be labelled, as I seem to remember that Wesnoth breaks up into then during one of the civil wars. Also, perhaps a nation or two to the east? Just to stimulate innovation, and give ideas for new campaigns, and add a little political complexity.
P.S The map that you posted, Dugi, is Eliddell's.

[Adamant14]

I still haven't found a particular location to settle my campaign Antar.
Is it possible to make a few tweaks/changes to your map?

What I need is hill territory and a mountain pass, both next to forest.
related thread

[zookeeper]

Sorry guys, but I think the door is closed for now. I can't keep making revisions all the time so I have to call the maps done for the time being. Feel free to continue making suggestions regarding things outside the current maps or smaller features that could appear on close-ups.