new Fire Dragon

[Blarumyrran]

new Fire Dragon:

pisilohepunane3_preview.png

previous revisions:

pisilohe12_preview.png

pisilohe4.png

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Much better than the Oversized Orange one. The oversizedness of the OO causes a lot of uglyness, this doesn't. The oversizedness of OO would only work out if the dragon appeared in scenarios where other units & cavewalls & the like could not be on hexes next to the dragon, but that is not the case, and it would be incredibly limiting if it were. The OO has some ugly parts by itself too - especially stomach scales.

Also a problem I have with the OO one is that Fire Dragon (level5) is not actually an incredibly powerful unit - its best attack is [14*4|marksman], while Great Mage (level4) has [16*4|magical]; its hp is 102, while Yeti's (level4) hp is 142! Overall it is of course better than either (with flight, speed, level 5 leadership and whatnot), but I'm saying it has the sort of stats that you would expect a level 5 to have over a level 4, analogously to how lower levels relate to each other. Yet the size of the OO suggests an enormous power behind it, perhaps comparable to 10 level 4 units! This is an error and my dragon sprite doesn't make that error.

<blarumyrran> you will, of course, immediately replace the ugly orange fire dragon with this? It's not like the orange one is animated anyway
<a contributing and respected member of society> sure sure absolutely

the front (his) left leg & shadow were done at the last moment so they are kind of clumsy but I am sleepy now maybe I will redo them.

[TheScribe]

Okay, I have a couple comments, but would like to begin with the disclaimer that I'm not an artist.

First off, aren't units supposed to be facing southwest? EDIT: just so you guys know, I was kidding.

Also, the legs seem to be way too small to hold the body. They'd probably snap under that kind of weight. And personally, this version doesn't convey anything about fire to me. Looks pretty good otherwise.

P.S. The Fire Dragon also has lvl5 leadership, which accounts for it weaknesses in my opinion.

[Blarumyrran]

First off, aren't units supposed to be facing southwest?

You are right

Also, the legs seem to be way too small to hold the body.

No; in wesnoth human sprites have near-chibi proportions, distortion of proportions is normal; I think such small legs give it a medieval feel

And personally, this version doesn't convey anything about fire to me.

There are no non-fire dragons in wesnoth other than skeleton dragons; it would be expected of any "normal" dragon to breathe fire

P.S. The Fire Dragon also has lvl5 leadership

I mentioned that.

which accounts for it weaknesses in my opinion.

It is again, nothing outlandish; maybe I'm wrong but I believe a Grand Marshal increases the attack of a level1 by 75% and a Dragon by 100% - it's not a groundbreaking difference. Also I think body size should correlate most strongly to the physical aspects of a unit, that is foremostly power of attack and hp.

[doofus-01]

I like the orange one much more...

It looks like a strange building with a staircase leading up it's front. Maybe a change of colors would change that.

EDIT:Blaruawaw- SynError edited his post; I was commenting on something that is no longer there. The new one looks better.

[Sapient]

I am sure that it will find good use. Campaign authors can never have too many of these big baddies to throw at the heroes.

However, I suspect that this will not replace the fire dragon in core, considering that there was already a conscious decision to upgrade from the smaller Red Wyvern version of Neorice (animated by kSeth):

http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php ... 81#p245581

[Blarumyrran]

Made him rounder-bellied; commit it away.

[Jetrel]

However, I suspect that this will not replace the fire dragon in core,

Yeah, of course not - especially with the new skeletal dragon that's been made.

[Sapient]

commit it away.

I am detecting a hint of not-so-seriousness

Mr. B. is likely exhibiting his usual (odd) sense of humor.

[Captain_Wrathbow]

I was under the impression from the beginning that this was meant entirely as a joke thread.


But that is indeed Blarumyrran's sense of humor; it is usually hard to tell when he is kidding.

[homunculus]

I think such small legs give it a medieval feel

exactly what i thought when i saw those small legs : )
they had all kinds of things with small legs, bulls and horses did look chubby that way (i cannot decide on the exact word, meaning something like: rich, stodgy, sleek).
also, have seen some knights in plate depicted rather lean and slender.

the forelegs almost resemble human hands, but if that was intentional then perhaps not enough.

[...]it is usually hard to tell when he is kidding.

i think people cannot even tell it themselves (me accepted this quite a while ago and i am still alive).

[thespaceinvader]

lol, SynErr.

[Shinobody]

I think campaign (or era etc.) including all the the surrealist Blarumyrran's sprites would be interesting idea.

[name]

I think campaign (or era etc.) including all the the surrealist Blarumyrran's sprites would be interesting idea.

Erasercrown Era?

That's actually an excellent idea though, it could even become an official campaign set inside the mind of a powerful mage/necromancer/sorceress character that has gone or is going mad. It wouldn't feel any more out of place versus other campaigns than UtBS, IMHO.

[Kanzil]

I think campaign (or era etc.) including all the the surrealist Blarumyrran's sprites would be interesting idea.

Even better would be a room in the surrealist section of the tate modern . It's a nice piece of work though, I may use it in a campaign...

[homunculus]

From LordBobs commissions thread:

creating better dragon sprites since this what is unfortunately feels more like ugly placeholder and due to size causes many technical problems, among other things blowing up interface.

I agree completely!

The current mainline dragon is large indeed (could be 2/3 the size and still fulfill the purpose of being oversized) but as for looking 'more like an ugly placeholder', I am yet to see an alternative that is better, at least within the same style.

But one can only say 'awesome' so many times until it becomes really boring.

As far as I understand, the oversized dragons and their most stereotypical appearance come from some AD&D monster manual or similar source where they reasoned, as far as those discussions reached me, that some mythological dragons were as large as a mountain range.
However, I doubt such huge monsters were defeated with physical might in folk tales, maybe with faith or something like that instead, but afaik that was not considered by the oversized dragon supporters.
An overdone (tiny but) epic hero defeating some oversized epic dragon is probably what some people find too cheesy.

The new sprite really is nice, and makes some things (that I have struggled with myself) look really good, but in Wesnoth context it would look like a hardcore freak.
As for a campaign that would feature the new dragon, it would probably go something like this:

Spoiler:

1) When Blarumyrran's dragon hatched from the egg the parents (current mainline fire dragons) fled in terror and were never seen again.
2) The greatest heroes of all Wesnoth that had gathered to slay the parents found this child dragon with the Holt Oram Syndrome (1, 2) and curly horns instead, and decided there was no honor in slaying it.
They warned it, however, that the peasants would be more pragmatic if it stole their chicken.
3) Wherever the little dragon went, it was humiliated and thrown stones at, until it hid in the darkness of the deepest caves.
4) there it met a mud glob, they got married and gave birth to many monsters of the deep: the leech, the eyestalk, etc, which no deep dungeon is complete without.

So, it would hit two birds with one stone:
1) The idea of the offspring of a dragon and a mud glob mentioned somewhere in the forum a while back.
2) Make use of this new sprite in such way that no one could say that the style does fit in Wesnoth context.

And, btw, I liked the latest standing version more.