Stolen Wesnoth Graphics / A Question

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Karroc
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Stolen Wesnoth Graphics / A Question

Post by Karroc »

This game http://armorgames.com/play/13474/my-pet-protector-3 is using the Battle for Wesnoth portraits. Is that allowed?
(terribly sorry if it is and I have been foolish)

Daravel
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Re: A question

Post by Daravel »

From what I understand of the GPL (the licence under which all Wesnoth content is licenced) is that someone can use any element of the game however they wish (be it in their own add-on, their own game or even just renaming Wesnoth and releasing it as a seperate game). They can even charge money for it.

Of course, it is not very polite to do so without informing the artists to do so and many people would object on a moral standpoint. But it is completely legal.

Edit: Just had a look at the game. They even use the sprites for villages and other items. Tut tut!

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Iris
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Re: A question

Post by Iris »

Daravel wrote:From what I understand of the GPL (the licence under which all Wesnoth content is licenced) is that someone can use any element of the game however they wish (be it in their own add-on, their own game or even just renaming Wesnoth and releasing it as a seperate game). They can even charge money for it.
As long as it’s still distributed under the GNU GPL version(s) originally specified. This means you can’t take one of our assets and stick a different (proprietary or otherwise) license to it without a formal exception from the copyright owner(s) unless they had already provided it under such license (i.e. dual/multi licensing); similarly, you cannot claim you are the sole copyright owner yourself. I haven’t looked at the site—and probably will not—so I don’t know whether this is the case or not.

And, as always, IANAL.
Author of the unofficial UtBS sequels Invasion from the Unknown and After the Storm (now available for Wesnoth 1.14).

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Dragonchampion
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Stolen Wesnoth Graphics

Post by Dragonchampion »

Topic merge start.
-- shadowmaster


http://armorgames.com/play/13474/my-pet-protector-3

This game has stolen Wesnoth graphics on the title screen; kitty's Male and Female mages. Even worse, he is using the game to accept donations. I do not believe this "Undefined" fellow is Kitty, so his accepting donations from a game using her work is illegal afaik.

Proof that it's her work that was stolen: http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=21336

EDIT:

Try playing the game. The game is COMPLETELY dependent on Wesnoth graphics, from terrain tiles to castles to ruins and portraits. This is not credited anywhere, nor is the license obeyed.
Last edited by Dragonchampion on June 23rd, 2012, 1:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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william150
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Re: Stolen Wesnoth Graphics

Post by william150 »

I noticed a play that also uses several other portraits in the game, not accept donation, but as far as I know wesnoth is GPL I myself use a portrait of a knight as an avatar for a game called imperia online. ps: graphics terrain is also present in the game.

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Dragonchampion
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Re: Stolen Wesnoth Graphics

Post by Dragonchampion »

If I read GPL correctly, it says that people that use it cannot accept donations or any amount of money for its use.
Ehhhh... don't mind me, I'm just the annoying little modder who gets on peoples nerves. I'll just lurk till Someone says my name. :P

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Shinobody
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Re: Stolen Wesnoth Graphics

Post by Shinobody »

Um, actually, I'm pretty sure GPL allows you to get paid for your work. As long as the game - or at least that part of it, so graphics - is GPL'd, it's ok.
Except these graphics can't be reused, they aren't available separately, and author doesn't inform us these graphics are on GPL or include the copy of license with the game.
EDIT: WTF MAN this game is built on Wesnoth graphics! It uses terrain, portraits (and everything not taken stolen is pretty mediocre at best), and doesn't mention EXISTENCE of GPL, not even talking about actually licensing anything.
That's what happens when someone doesn't see the difference between "Gnu Public License" and "Free Candy".

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Dragonchampion
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Re: Stolen Wesnoth Graphics

Post by Dragonchampion »

Another of his games, Hordes of Heroes, actually steals and uses graphics from RPG Maker VX. Since he does accept donations because of those graphics as well, his "game stealer" could possibly be looking at jail time. Kitty needs to talk with that game maker and get everything straightened about.

Someone who steals all this work and specifically doesn't mention the source OR the license is criminal in my book.
Ehhhh... don't mind me, I'm just the annoying little modder who gets on peoples nerves. I'll just lurk till Someone says my name. :P

Oh, and also Creator of The War Of Terrador

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Solikos
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Re: Stolen Wesnoth Graphics

Post by Solikos »

+1 for taking action.

Emailed armorgames (not sure if they have a policy on this), but that's just a starting point.

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Iris
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Re: Stolen Wesnoth Graphics / A Question

Post by Iris »

End of the topic merge.

Dragonchampion, next time check other forums to make sure there isn’t currently another active topic on the same subject, please. :augh: All the posts preceding your first one in this merged topic came from the first topic in Users’ Forum. I have decided to merge them here since this place is probably better suited anyway.

Let’s not make much noise before some other developer takes a look, though. It’s not the end of the world, or anything else for that matter. Calling people names (‘criminal’, etc.) is not helpful either.
Author of the unofficial UtBS sequels Invasion from the Unknown and After the Storm (now available for Wesnoth 1.14).

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Dragonchampion
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Re: Stolen Wesnoth Graphics / A Question

Post by Dragonchampion »

Alright, sorry about that Shadow. Been a while since I have been on these forums so I jumped the gun a bit. ^_^;

But yeah, as a writer myself I get a bit peeved with thievery, especially when they gave absolutely no credit for what they took.
Ehhhh... don't mind me, I'm just the annoying little modder who gets on peoples nerves. I'll just lurk till Someone says my name. :P

Oh, and also Creator of The War Of Terrador

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ancestral
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Re: Stolen Wesnoth Graphics / A Question

Post by ancestral »

Let’s walk through the points of the GPL, and see how well this author is doing, shall we?

Firstly, understand that the GPL says that you can have sections of a Program with different licensing:
If identifiable sections of that work are not derived from the Program, and can be reasonably considered independent and separate works in themselves, then this License, and its terms, do not apply to those sections when you distribute them as separate works.
So, the author can use the images and other sections of his work can have different licensing.


Alright, let’s now step through the 12 points of the GNU GPL Version 2:
  1. “…publish on each copy an appropriate copyright notice and disclaimer of warranty.”
    Missing. It doesn’t appear the author has posted this anywhere.
  2. “You must cause the modified files to carry prominent notices stating that you changed the files… in whole or in part contains or is derived from the Program or any part thereof, to be licensed as a whole at no charge to all third parties.”
    OK. The author appears to not have made modifications to the images, and doesn’t appear to be at full charge anyway.
  3. “You may copy and distribute the Program… provided that you also do one of the following…”
    Missing. Somewhere the author needs to specify how the user can obtain the “source code” (in this case, the images).
  4. You may not copy, modify, sublicense, or distribute the Program except as expressly provided under this License.
    Fail. Technically, by not achieving the parts above, the author fails this part.
  5. “…by modifying or distributing the Program (or any work based on the Program), you indicate your acceptance of this License to do so…”
    Unknown. It appears the author has no choice but to accept the GPL for at least the images in question.
  6. “Each time you redistribute the Program (or any work based on the Program), the recipient automatically receives a license from the original licensor…”
    Missing. The author needs to display the GPL license somewhere, somehow.
  7. If… conditions are imposed on you (whether by court order, agreement or otherwise) that contradict the conditions of this License, they do not excuse you from the conditions of this License.
    Unimportant here.
  8. “If the distribution and/or use of the Program is restricted in certain countries…”
    Unimportant here.
  9. “The Free Software Foundation may publish revised and/or new versions…”
    Unimportant here.
  10. “If you wish to incorporate parts of the Program into other free programs whose distribution conditions are different, write to the author to ask for permission.”
    Unknown. I’m assuming the author did not ask permission from Kitty, Lord Bob, and anyone else, but that would be another option.
The last two points are unimportant.

So, if the author publishes a copy of the license in the program or possibly at least at the web page where the program is run, and indicates how to obtain the images, then he should satisfy the GPL.

It appears that the author, in case you’re curious, can be contacted here: undefined@protectorworld.com
Last edited by ancestral on June 23rd, 2012, 6:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ancestral
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Re: Stolen Wesnoth Graphics

Post by ancestral »

Dragonchampion wrote:If I read GPL correctly, it says that people that use it cannot accept donations or any amount of money for its use.
I’m not sure you read the GPL correctly…
Shinobody wrote:EDIT: WTF MAN this game is built on Wesnoth graphics! It uses terrain, portraits (and everything not taken stolen is pretty mediocre at best), and doesn't mention EXISTENCE of GPL, not even talking about actually licensing anything.
That's what happens when someone doesn't see the difference between "Gnu Public License" and "Free Candy".
“Stolen” is not the right term here.

Let’s say you wrote a book and gave it away for free ($0). You want everyone to read it, and you want people to be able to make nice hard-bound copies, too. You’ve been feeling particularly altruistic lately; you’re totally okay if someone makes money off of it, because you feel your message is that good. The only thing is you ask to be credited on the cover as the author, and any changes someone makes needs to be listed in an appendix.

If someone decides to change the ending of your book, they didn’t steal your book; they just modified and distributed it improperly.

GNU GPL exists for a reason, and people use it to license their own work for a reason. It’s my belief that it’s there to allow us to share the good parts while honoring those who made it first. Because of permissive or open licensing we have numerous software libraries and frameworks, without which we wouldn’t have many great projects like The Battle for Wesnoth, which leverages many great open source software technologies like SDL, zlib, gettext, Boost, and others. If you don’t like the idea of someone using your work, don’t license it as GPL because that’s what it’s actually intended to allow people to do, but in a civil way.

I do believe, it’s an education thing. Do understand that most people are oblivious and wholly ignorant when it comes to licensing. Scores of people everywhere feel anything on the Internet is or should be uncopyrightable. Others may not have known something was copyrighted because they didn’t see a copyright notice where they obtained it. Just remember this when you see something someone is doing that isn’t abiding by the work’s license.
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Dragonchampion
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Re: Stolen Wesnoth Graphics / A Question

Post by Dragonchampion »

Oh, wow, now that's a nice, detailed description. Thanks for that, Ancestral, really opened my eyes! :D
Ehhhh... don't mind me, I'm just the annoying little modder who gets on peoples nerves. I'll just lurk till Someone says my name. :P

Oh, and also Creator of The War Of Terrador

Undefined_T
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Re: Stolen Wesnoth Graphics / A Question

Post by Undefined_T »

Hi guys,

I wanted to stop and explain the situation here. I'm the developer who made the game in question and I want to hold my hands up!
As a designer and terrible artist I rely on sourcing artwork, icons, logos and graphics from various places to improve the games I produce, some original, some commissioned, licensed, stock images, public domain and, as in this case GPL licensed. As you can probably imagine having been producing games like this for around 4 years my library of assets is quite significant.
The images in question were actually obtained from an asset pack which included things from many different sources, the BfW images used for example were actually listed as from WTactics, which after investigation I see uses them under the GNU GPL. I had actually made a note to identify the images used as being under the GPL on the credits screen on the game, however if you've seen the game you'll notice there's no credits screen. Later I had decided to forgo adding one to keep the game nice and clean, I occasionally do this since in most cases the only person requiring crediting is myself and I don't mind, unfortunately, because I'm a huge idiot as well as a terrible artist, this meant I put aside the notes which included the need to credit and mention the artwork used too.

I understand the annoyance this can create and fully appreciate how fans of the game could be angry about it and see me as trying to profit from the work of others. All I can say is that I actually feel really bad about neglecting to include a simple line of text and want to apologize for not giving appropriate indication of the GPL status of the artwork. As you can probably imagine since the only requirements of use are an indication of the GPL status of the artwork only a huge idiot who overlooked it like myself (Or as Ancestral eloquently pointed out (great posts by the way), someone who didn't realize what GPL meant) would use them without doing so.

It may not be criminal or the same as using copyrighted material but it is very disrespectful and I obviously don't want to disrespect anyone who has provided me with awesome assets for free use.

An update to the game which clearly indicates the GPL status of several pieces of art has been created and the game will be replaced with it soon, this information will also provide a link to download all modified assets and provide a full copy of the GPL they're covered by. Currently it's just a simple whipped up in notebook page just to get something up quickly but I'll put together something a little better soon which also links back to BfW.

Again, I want to apologize for neglecting to do this prior to releasing the game, it's only a small thing to do and I greatly appreciate everyone who releases work under a GPL license, many people benefit from it and it provides a great resource to people like myself, however this small oversight has annoyed people and that was never my intention at all. My Bad.

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