Water lilies

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Sangel
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Re: Water lilies

Post by Sangel »

Looking great. I also downloaded and tested the lilies with gray and swamp water, and results were very good.

The only tweak I'd suggest is on the tile that has both an extra-large lily and a flower sitting on it - the combination is quite noticeable and gives a sense of repetition. Apart from that, you've done a fantastic job of introducing tile variation and breaking up the hex pattern. I look forward to seeing these tiles added to Wesnoth.
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Eleazar
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Re: Water lilies

Post by Eleazar »

Adding the flowering pads as a separate terrain is a good idea. It allows the lily pads to be used in more sinister settings (without flowers), or as very happy faery places (all flowers) etc.

I know it is tricky at that size, but could you work on the lilies themselves? They look like some kind of glowing thing. I don't want heavy outlining, but there no sense of edges or of shading underneath.
I'm a little worried that parts of the large tiles might cover the terrain too much, though, especially where several tiles overlap near the edges of hexes. I may have to trim some of them back a little.
It wouldn't hurt, but i wouldn't trim a lot.
I've also discovered an issue with bridges - namely, that the wooden bridges which end in mid-water extend a long way outside their hex, so they overlap even with the small lily variations. I think it could be fixed by messing around with the WML so the bridge always appears on top, though.
That's probably true. It is easier to get layering right when putting the terrain in mainline rather than creating it as an addon.

I didn't think of this before, but something that would increase the convincingness of the pads is to add some slight color variation between pads, i.e. some paler and yellower, some darker and browner.
Feel free to PM me if you start a new terrain oriented thread. It's easy for me to miss them among all the other art threads.
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Atz
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Re: Water lilies

Post by Atz »

Eleazar wrote:I know it is tricky at that size, but could you work on the lilies themselves? They look like some kind of glowing thing. I don't want heavy outlining, but there no sense of edges or of shading underneath.
I'll try. I had a bit of a go earlier but it was giving me serious problems so I thought I'd get the positioning right first and see what other people thought.
Eleazar wrote:I didn't think of this before, but something that would increase the convincingness of the pads is to add some slight color variation between pads, i.e. some paler and yellower, some darker and browner.
Good idea, should be easy enough to do.

Atz
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Re: Water lilies

Post by Atz »

Flowers are proving irritating. Here's my best attempts so far. I'm thinking I like the smaller one better - the other one is getting a bit big compared to the pads in my opinion, and it's also getting a bit too pixelly - but I'd like other opinions. Was also thinking of possibly reducing the brightness/contrast a little, in hopes that it would reduce the impression that they're glowing, but I don't want to go too dark because then they look dull and poorly lit. Real water lilies are actually pretty bright, after all.
Attachments
water-lilies_test2.png
water-lilies_test2.png (20.88 KiB) Viewed 3348 times
water-lilies_test.png
water-lilies_test.png (20.93 KiB) Viewed 3348 times

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thespaceinvader
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Re: Water lilies

Post by thespaceinvader »

The larger one looks great to me =)
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StDrake
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Re: Water lilies

Post by StDrake »

I actually prefer the smaller, the pixels that should be differentiating petals make a mess instead, still shows a little even on the smaller one.
It may be a stupid idea, but how about making use of the WINR rule and use the first huge flower? It actually looked the best and most lillylike, just the size was unrealistic, but after all - we got huge mushroom groves in Wesnoth as well. Or even go to the point of playing around the alphas and really making them glow?
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Re: Water lilies

Post by fabi »

Can't we have both?

Atz
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Re: Water lilies

Post by Atz »

StDrake wrote:It may be a stupid idea, but how about making use of the WINR rule and use the first huge flower? It actually looked the best and most lillylike, just the size was unrealistic, but after all - we got huge mushroom groves in Wesnoth as well.
...what huge flower? I honestly have no idea what you are talking about. At no point have any of the flowers been larger than the ones I just posted. Also, the original complaint was that they had little definition and looked like shapeless, glowing masses, not that they were too large.

Though I am sorely tempted to make a terrain which is just one ridiculously gigantic flower, like on the Magic card Khalni Heart Expedition, so that I actually have the space to draw some detail.
The larger one looks great to me =)
I actually prefer the smaller
Can't we have both?
:/

Well, as long as they don't look like a random glowing thing I don't care too much which people actually prefer, especially not the peanut gallery (no offence intended). Since TSI is happy with the large one I'm going to assume it's up to an acceptable standard unless Eleazar says otherwise. Onwards, to colour variation! And fixing the flowers in all the other variations.

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Eleazar
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Re: Water lilies

Post by Eleazar »

The flower part is much improved. At the risk of being nit-picky, heres more or less what i was looking for with this: "I don't want heavy outlining, but there no sense of edges or of shading underneath."
lily.jpg
lily.jpg (35.71 KiB) Viewed 3034 times
---Some black pixels at 40-60% opacity around the bottom of the flower. It gives the flower more dimensionality.


I'd use both sizes you just made.
Feel free to PM me if you start a new terrain oriented thread. It's easy for me to miss them among all the other art threads.
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homunculus
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Re: Water lilies

Post by homunculus »

maybe the "first flower" was meant as this one
Image
if it was, then there are now two opinions (that don't matter) that this one was a good flower.
because it looked more like a flower (i guess it's better if i skip the detailed reasoning).
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Atz
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Re: Water lilies

Post by Atz »

Eleazar wrote:The flower part is much improved. At the risk of being nit-picky, heres more or less what i was looking for with this: "I don't want heavy outlining, but there no sense of edges or of shading underneath."
lily.jpg
---Some black pixels at 40-60% opacity around the bottom of the flower. It gives the flower more dimensionality.
...

Well, now I feel like an idiot for missing something so simple. I guess it shows why Eleazar is in charge of terrain.

Now please excuse me while I go through the "AUGH I am a terrible artist I can't believe people actually want my work" stage again.

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StDrake
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Re: Water lilies

Post by StDrake »

hmm yep, homunculus got what I meant
those first flowers were quite pretty despite the lack of detail(which would pose a danger of making a mess)
the new one even with Eleazars corrections still looks a bit strange - most of the petals get in each others way

hey cheer up, you at least got the "people actually want my work" part
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Atz
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Re: Water lilies

Post by Atz »

Um. I was actually using that exact same flower before my recent attempt at fixing it. It's one of the flowers that originally drew criticism.

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Sapient
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Re: Water lilies

Post by Sapient »

not sure if this comment is relevant or not, but as a scenario coder I would prefer to be able to place the flowers manually rather than relying on random placement. For example, you may want to trigger an event at the flower.
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Alarantalara
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Re: Water lilies

Post by Alarantalara »

Sapient wrote:not sure if this comment is relevant or not, but as a scenario coder I would prefer to be able to place the flowers manually rather than relying on random placement. For example, you may want to trigger an event at the flower.
Atz wrote:I have also added lilies with flowers as a separate terrain, because I found that if I just added them to the regular terrain you would often get clumps which drew your eye to the tiling.
I think it's taken care of.

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