Ellisae's portrait attempts - Eastern Invasion

Contribute art for mainline Wesnoth.

Moderators: Forum Moderators, Developers

Forum rules
Before posting critique in this forum, you must read the following thread:
User avatar
Sgt. Groovy
Art Contributor
Posts: 1471
Joined: May 22nd, 2006, 9:15 pm
Location: Helsinki

Re: Ellisae's portrait attempts

Post by Sgt. Groovy »

In Gweddry's portrait the weakest point is the hand. It's shape is poorly defined and the position looks wrong. When holding something on your hand, one would expect the palm to be facing up, not backwards like his.
Tiedäthän kuinka pelataan.
Tiedäthän, vihtahousua vastaan.
Tiedäthän, solmu kravatin, se kantaa niin synnit
kuin syntien tekijätkin.

User avatar
thespaceinvader
Retired Art Director
Posts: 8414
Joined: August 25th, 2007, 10:12 am
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

Re: Ellisae's portrait attempts

Post by thespaceinvader »

Actually, I think you're incorrect. The current position is comfortable for me holding an object like that. The hand is a little small, though. The main issue that I see is the Gweddry just feels a little bit stiff to me - just not very characterful. You've done a very clean job, but something just feels like it's missing. He's also leaning back a bit, but that's fixed easily with a simple rotation.

I'd wonder about doing a separate version of him showing a little extra emotion, like kitty did for Deoran - this portrait's too good to go to waste, but it doesn't feel appropriate to some of his dialogue in the campaign.

Great start, though. Keep up the good work.

StDrake: I'm not going to warn you again. If you're not critiquing, keep your opinions to yourself. You will lose the ability to post in the Art sections if you do not. This is your final warning.
http://thespaceinvader.co.uk | http://thespaceinvader.deviantart.com
Back to work. Current projects: Catching up on commits. Picking Meridia back up. Sprite animations, many and varied.

User avatar
Ellisae
Posts: 29
Joined: January 1st, 2011, 2:11 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: Ellisae's portrait attempts

Post by Ellisae »

Ugh, the hand is driving me mad! I hope this fixes most of theproblems with it.
Gweddry sketch2.png
I also made a quick one-minute sketch of angry-face Gweddry - does this look more characterful? If so, I am not against making another for him. As annoying as the hand is, I am enjoying making this one. I doubt I'm going over two or him for now, though, so if a different expression is more fitting I'll do that.
First year illustration student. Socially awkward; apologies if seems rude/strange/offensive/something.

User avatar
thespaceinvader
Retired Art Director
Posts: 8414
Joined: August 25th, 2007, 10:12 am
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

Re: Ellisae's portrait attempts

Post by thespaceinvader »

Yep, that face looks good - indeed, putting that on the current portrait would probably do the trick nicely without having to do anything extra. It just needs about 10 to 15 degrees rotation anticlockwise/forward and you're there for the sketch I think.
http://thespaceinvader.co.uk | http://thespaceinvader.deviantart.com
Back to work. Current projects: Catching up on commits. Picking Meridia back up. Sprite animations, many and varied.

User avatar
Ellisae
Posts: 29
Joined: January 1st, 2011, 2:11 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: Ellisae's portrait attempts

Post by Ellisae »

That's a pretty good idea, actually. I tried it, and it'll look something like this:
Gweddry sketch3.png
It still needs some work, as the face looks really strange when flipped horizontally, but I like it better now.
First year illustration student. Socially awkward; apologies if seems rude/strange/offensive/something.

User avatar
thespaceinvader
Retired Art Director
Posts: 8414
Joined: August 25th, 2007, 10:12 am
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

Re: Ellisae's portrait attempts

Post by thespaceinvader »

I like it. I'd say go for carrying on to inking/ colouring/whatever step is next in your process =).
http://thespaceinvader.co.uk | http://thespaceinvader.deviantart.com
Back to work. Current projects: Catching up on commits. Picking Meridia back up. Sprite animations, many and varied.

User avatar
Ellisae
Posts: 29
Joined: January 1st, 2011, 2:11 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: Ellisae's portrait attempts

Post by Ellisae »

I'm currently trying to figure out how the lighting would work, what colours to put where, etc. Just putting in shadows and lights quickly and then changing stuff around until it looks reasonable. I'm not sure about his hair colour, and the amount of gold lining on his armour, but the rest seems alright to me now. I'm going to check the lighting and everything afterwards, and then cleaning up the places where the lines are wobbly and the colours spill over.

Lines can still be altered if necessary!
Attachments
Gweddry colours.png
First year illustration student. Socially awkward; apologies if seems rude/strange/offensive/something.

User avatar
StDrake
Posts: 996
Joined: July 21st, 2009, 6:50 am

Re: Ellisae's portrait attempts

Post by StDrake »

umm..it's a bit late but..now the arm has a problem, the pic should say more than words
Attachments
Gweddry sketch3.png
Gweddry sketch3.png (54.3 KiB) Viewed 2718 times
Like cats? I've made a whole faction of them to kick ass with!
Don't like cats? I've made a whole faction of them to kick their asses! So everyone's happy :)
Felinian faction is part of the Beyond Southern Hells era
kitties need sprites! art topic here

User avatar
Ellisae
Posts: 29
Joined: January 1st, 2011, 2:11 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: Ellisae's portrait attempts

Post by Ellisae »

It's not late at all, there's no reason I can't still change things. I'm not sure it's a problem, though - the edge of the shoulderpad-things, where your green line starts, is (due to clothing layers and thickness of the metal) quite a bit away from the actual arm. The red area has less layers, since it isn't a joint and doesn't have to be flexible, so doesn't have to be as thick. If the arm was where the green line was there, it wouldn't fit in the elbow plate.
...Or so I think. If someone else thinks it's a problem as well, I will change it.
Last edited by Ellisae on January 6th, 2011, 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
First year illustration student. Socially awkward; apologies if seems rude/strange/offensive/something.

User avatar
thespaceinvader
Retired Art Director
Posts: 8414
Joined: August 25th, 2007, 10:12 am
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

Re: Ellisae's portrait attempts

Post by thespaceinvader »

I think you're misreading the positions, StDrake. The arm looks fine to me, it's just not as far out as you think.

Lighting looks solid. Gweddry's in charge, though, so you can't go wrong with more bling :D
http://thespaceinvader.co.uk | http://thespaceinvader.deviantart.com
Back to work. Current projects: Catching up on commits. Picking Meridia back up. Sprite animations, many and varied.

User avatar
kitty
Retired Portrait Director
Posts: 1290
Joined: January 2nd, 2008, 3:29 pm

Re: Ellisae's portrait attempts

Post by kitty »

And a welcome from me as well, Ellisae! Great to have an other promising contributor!

Some critiques on Gweddry, it would be great if you could address those before you continue shading (but the shading in itself starts to look nice, two light directions are a good decision. Take care to not make the metal's reflection too blotchy.):

- The face is seen from a different angle than the head.
- The eyes are asymmetrical and the nose is a tad long, your shading gives it a rather cute shape, perhaps something along the current Gweddry's aristocratic hooked nose would be more fitting.
- His left (our right) upper arm is a tiny bit too long.
- The armor's neckline is very, very tight. Metal on skin isn't very comfy… Perhaps even have some kind of shirt peek out.


For the hair colour I'd favor some kind of blond, just for continuity reasons with the current artwork.

If you are willing to produce two versions, one neutral and one angry, I'd like to see more difference between them than just the facial expression. E.g. simply raising the angry one's rear arm with a fist could give him much more originality.


Keep it up!

User avatar
JackBarber
Posts: 272
Joined: October 27th, 2009, 4:43 pm
Location: In your head.

Re: Ellisae's portrait attempts

Post by JackBarber »

I think the rear arm up with the hand in a fist is over used.
(Though if you can prove me wrong and show me a "angry" portrait which doesn't use it go ahead with it...)
How about his hand on his sword about to draw, with a sneer on his face looking in the opposite person's direction?
Last edited by JackBarber on January 6th, 2011, 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Do YOU know the muffin man?"
."Don't wake me if I'm dreaming."
.."Even words can drive a man to madness."

User avatar
kitty
Retired Portrait Director
Posts: 1290
Joined: January 2nd, 2008, 3:29 pm

Re: Ellisae's portrait attempts

Post by kitty »

:roll: E.g. means it was an example... But generally we use pretty simple and iconic poses to convey stereotypical emotions quickly. So a fist is fine if it communicates the necessary meaning, if Ellisae comes up with a different and easily incorporatable idea (and fitting with Gweddry's character) it would be even better, of course.

User avatar
homunculus
Posts: 537
Joined: July 21st, 2010, 9:47 pm

Re: Ellisae's portrait attempts

Post by homunculus »

artisticdude wrote:[...]the section of the shoulder strap that goes across the abdomen (see the area circled in red below). Perhaps a more gradual curve would word better, as illustrated by the green line below? But I'm not entirely sure where you're going with the shape of the armor[...]
about the shape of the armor, such kind of armor often had an even more protruding angular shape at the belly region, the lower the more.
to deflect spears and things better.

and as for the palm of the hand, it is a metal glove and i don't think it necessarily needs the knuckle bones that seem to be causing so much trouble.
campaign ruthless in your nearest 1.11 add-on server
some wesnoth-related drawings

User avatar
LordBob
Portrait Director
Posts: 1228
Joined: December 8th, 2008, 8:18 pm
Location: Lille, France
Contact:

Re: Ellisae's portrait attempts

Post by LordBob »

Wow, wow, soooo fast. Perhaps too much so, even. With future portraits, you may find useful to work on several sketches at once and wait 'till you got a full round of comments before you start shading ; it avoids having mistakes pointed to you once you're too far into the process. Nothing is more unnerving than correcting a fully-shaded portrait after you missed some lineart problem. :wink:

Anyway, back to this very promising Gweddry. In addtion to what's already been said :
- His head in the second version seems a little large compared to the body and helm, which in turn reduces the perceived bulk of the armour. I'd suggest shrinking it by 2-3 percent, I think it'll improve his overall looks.
- While the (our) right pauldron is well designed, the left one feels too straight and too close-fitting to the shoulder to articulate properly. I'd suggest rounding it a little more, like you did the other one. Note that this is not me asking for symetry : different pauldrons are quite common in plate armour and very fitting :)
- The design of your gauntlet seems to leave an opening on the wrist, which I believe is very very rare in high grade plate armour. Most of the time, you'll have a fixed extension of the vambrace that covers the wrist and back of the hand, or a wrist guard attached to the gauntlet. Either way, there's always something solid that can endure blows and directly protects your wrist.
- Similarly, you never, ever wear full plate armour and keep your neck bare. Not if you want to live anyway. :P At the very least he would wear some kind of padded shirt/hood like Kitty suggested, or a mail coiff, or you can extend his steel collar into a gorget.
- The pummel of the sword feels a little light (and also simple compared to the bling of the armour). Keep in mind when drawing that it's both a decoration and heavy enough to compensate the weight of the blade so that you sword's balanced.
- The waist belt feels a tad short : you might want to make the knotted tip longer.

Post Reply