Ellisae's portrait attempts - Eastern Invasion

[artisticdude]

Hey, stop picking on the lass, canonically elves ARE tall and ski..err slim

Fair & honest critique =/= picking.

here'd been ugly elven ladies made for mainline not long ago so i don't see why this one shouldn't have some anatomic degenerations.

Ugly? I disagree. While some of the elvish portraits may be more physically 'beautiful' than others, none of them are 'ugly'.

And don't you lot think you're starting to treat BfW too much as your property(if it's anyones i'd attribute it rather to Dave don't you think)? And more yet - looking at art too much through a masters master? Most non-artistic people wouldn't notice such details

Technically, being open-source, the game is everyone's property... they can do what they want with it so long as they remain within the limitations of the GPL. And one of the reasons Wesnoth has the reputation of being one of the best (if not the best) FOSS game out there is because we have such high standards for our art content. If you can make it better, why not do so?

[StDrake]

Ugly? I disagree. While some of the elvish portraits may be more physically 'beautiful' than others, none of them are 'ugly'.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess, I recall the memory of an elven portrait where, while the portrait itself was a masterpiece as usual, the elven lady portrayed looked like Hitler to me, and that guy was nowhere near pretty.

one of the reasons Wesnoth has the reputation of being one of the best (if not the best) FOSS game out there is because we have such high standards for our art content.

I meant the part with restraining others from making mainline-designated art because there's some schedule who is supposed to make what.
While it may make sense to encourange delaying such workd because the content in question is having a total rework (though i can't imagine how much you intend to change UtBS that might change the character of main..well..characters), booking monopoly for art pieces raises my protest

..though on second hand..if you scare artists away from mainline they might help my UMC works..and maybe even make them into new mainline hehehehehehee

[Ellisae]

I wouldn't call it picking, and the comments help me improve, so it's fine. Thanks for defending me, though, even if it wasn't necessary it is a nice thing to do.
The high quality of the other art, including the ones that are being produced, is one of the reasons I am excited about trying to help. I had not noticed the problem with the cloak leaving too little room for the arm, in example, despite how obvious it looks to me now.

From the posts before, it seems there is a bit of uncertainty about UtBS, so I will avoid it, as it doesn't seem right to start when it is unclear. I will look at the other two Jetrel mentioned - I will likely have to play them through first, to get a better feel for the characters, though. I don't want to misrepresent them. I'll post some sketches when I have some - sketches aren't too much work yet! And I wouldn't really mind even if they were a bit of work.

[homunculus]

[...]Most non-artistic people wouldn't notice such details (or maybe it's just me and my disgraphy that I don't give a damn about disproportions..though the facing of chest vs bottom and volume within the hidden arm cloak are a little odd)[...]

if this construct was accidental and not deliberately meant as humor, you better study it and add it to your arsenal.
: )))))
actually it is even better, in the beginning you are also claiming to be protective.
then followed up by dysgraphic.
and then follows a list glaring flaws.
: ))))
my analogy to that is:
'i once saw an old man who had been shot a bullet clean through the head during the war. he was perfectly normal except <insert something here, e.g. he was drawing shoulders dislocated>. i see you are doing the same. could it be that you have also been, accidentally, shot a bullet through your brain?'

[StDrake]

no that was only an ant, but is this offtopic necessary?

[Boucman]

Hello Ellisae, obviously you're very talented and really close to mainline quality, so i'll give you the typical "good artist" greeting since nobody beats me to it

Ok, obviously you know what you're doing and your first try is close enough to mainline style to show that you'll be able to use that style with little practice. I'll give you a quick tour of our Art Community so you don't get lost.

Basically our forums are built around forum titles ( written under the people names, as you can see with my own)

* No title (or not an art-related title)
Did nothing with regard to art.
* Art Contributors
These people have contributed artwork to the mainline game.
* Art Developers
The "art staff", who have the power to add artwork to the mainline game, and can generally be relied upon for good critique.
* Portrait Directors (kitty and LordBob)
Give the go/no-go to portrait contributions
* Terrain Art Director (eleazar)
Gives the go/no-go for terrain art contributions
* (Deputy) Art Director (Jetrel, thespaceinvader)
Give the go/no-go to contributions in general


It is important for you to understand this distinction, because people with no art knowledge may not give comment and critique as well as people with art knowledge. If you disagree with a comment from someone with no title, just don't follow the advice.

You should consider comments from art contributors and art developers as comments coming from knowledgeable people, and worth considering... Of course, your art is yours and you are free to not follow the advice, but you should consider them. One thing to be aware of is that this forum is dedicated to getting artwork ready for the mainline game. We treat your work realistically - we're not going to praise it just because you posted it here. Please don't take offense at suggestions to improve your work - if you're looking for blind praise, you're in the wrong place.

Jetrel, kitty, and the Art Developers usually have very clear comments which tell if a change is needed to get something into mainline or just a suggestion to improve. These people will have the final say on whether something goes into the mainline game or not.

If you try to do a portrait for a specific character (from a campaign for example) you should try to contact the campaign author or maintainer(s) first and try to post your linework as soon as possible (even if it's just a scanned sheet of paper) — this is because the original author might have a particular "vision" on his character and having early feedback will usually be good for everybody

The part about submiting your work "early and often" is a good advice even if you are not drawing a campaign character, by the way....

Now the forums...

We have three art related forums:

* Art contributions is for pieces of art intended for mainline
* Art workshop is for pieces for user made content, and for users who are posting for critique to help to develop their skills.
* Art development is limited to people with an art title. Some artists don't like having their work openly criticized by the less knowledgeable members of the audience, and post there instead of the open forums.


One last point...

All wesnoth contributions must be made available under the terms of the GNU General Public License. I am not good at explaining legalese, but you should read it since your work have high chances of being mainlined at some point...

hope this helps make your ride on these forums smoother,

[LordBob]

And don't you lot think you're starting to treat BfW too much as your property (if it's anyones i'd attribute it rather to Dave don't you think)? And more yet - looking at art too much through a masters master?

We strive to improve the game and give every contribution our best. In return, it seems fair that we earn our say on topics we're good at (and in those only. I don't question music or background or which campaign goes mainline). IMO, quality art is part of what makes the difference between a good game and a great game : in the long run, I'd rather we spent weeks polishing a portrait that'll hold its ground for years, instead of months redoing every now and then some half-hearted placeholder.

The general rule on art should be - if it's better, it might go in even if others are already on it - so don't be afraid to have a go with some of those portraits, regardless of others. Look at what's been going on with the ancient lich portraits

No. We can't afford to waste talent by having talented people compete on the same subject when they're a rare resource. Just look how the aforementionned ancient lich topic has also failed to produce a single finalized portrait to this day...

Anyway, Ellisae please don't mind our bickering and welcome aboard. Pick a subject that you'll enjoy working on and do not hesitate to post sketches : we'll be looking forward to seeing them.

[thespaceinvader]

StDrake: We make the sometimes difficult decisions we make for the good of the game, and that includes ensuring that artwork is of the highest possible quality and where appropriate, from single authors for single campaigns/factions/species to maintain a unified style and vision. Keep your opinion to yourself in this section in future unless you're critiquing the artwork, please.

Ellisae: I really look forward to seeing more of your work.

[Jetrel]

I'll second both LordBob and thespaceinvader's two most recent posts.

[Ellisae]

Alright! I've started sketching stuff for The Eastern Invasion. I have a sketch done for Gweddry, with one for Dacyn on the way - according the the wiki Dacyn is 92 at the time Eastern Invasion starts, which I'm having a bit of trouble expressing in the sketches so far.

Anyway, here's my sketch for Gweddry - I tried to make it similar to the Sergeant line, while still being acceptable for all the different levels. I wanted to make it more decorated at first, but he starts out as a level 1, so it didn't seem very fitting.
The hand looks rather awkward - I'm trying to fix that right now.

EDIT: Changed the topic name since this is no longer just a question topic.

[StDrake]

We can't afford to waste talent by having talented people compete on the same subject when they're a rare resource. Just look how the aforementionned ancient lich topic has also failed to produce a single finalized portrait to this day...

I didn't consider that..then I was wrong with my worries. But why must everyone gang up and shout on me >.< one logical explanation would be (and was) enough.
speaking of the lich ports maybe we should just bring them together and let the community vote which one should (perhaps after some more care) make it to the mainline

But back on topic - is that belt running through his chest supposed to bend like that? I admit to being limited but I just can't imagine how it could stay this way.
..and what would you think if that sprite of yours could be placed in mainline as decorations for the Ka'lian council in TRoW?

[Ellisae]

Forgive me, I don't quite understand - which belt is that? There are two - the one on his waist and the one over his shoulder that attaches to the crossbow. The only of the two that goes over his chest is the crossbow one, but the bend there seems quite natural to me, as the breastplate itself is rounded. It may be a little off, but I can;t imagine it being very off.

By my sprite, do you mean the halberdier? I wouldn't mind it, I guess, but it isn't that great.

[StDrake]

apologies - i meant the crossbow holding belt, since you mention the rounding, maybe it indeed won't look unnatural once it's shaded
and yes i did mean the halberdies, and it's much greater than most of my sprites xD

[artisticdude]

That's a really nice sketch! A lot of personality in the character.

Forgive me, I don't quite understand - which belt is that? There are two - the one on his waist and the one over his shoulder that attaches to the crossbow. The only of the two that goes over his chest is the crossbow one, but the bend there seems quite natural to me, as the breastplate itself is rounded. It may be a little off, but I can;t imagine it being very off.

I believe he was referring to the section of the shoulder strap that goes across the abdomen (see the area circled in red below). Perhaps a more gradual curve would word better, as illustrated by the green line below? But I'm not entirely sure where you're going with the shape of the armor, and please keep in mind that I'm not a portrait artist (I only do sprite art), so my opinion/advice is pretty subjective.

As for the arm, I'm afraid I can't help much with that, except to say that perhaps the elbow should stick out farther to (our) right, so the forearm is almost parallel with the background? I'm putting this badly, but I hope it helps some.

Looking forward to seeing how this progresses.

..and what would you think if that sprite of yours could be placed in mainline as decorations for the Ka'lian council in TRoW?

Why did you ask that? You don't have commit access, and you aren't the campaign's maintainer. If one of those who have the necessary authority think it should go in, it will. But raising questions like that if you don't have the necessary authority only promotes off-topicness and other issues.

[StDrake]

Why did you ask that?

Erroneous expression, i meant that as a proposal for those with power to consider, after all we are in the section about mainline art and it just doesn't seem right if such a neat piece went to waste :/
promoting offtopicness? oh no, I've no idea how i do that please ignore those parts if they're not very stable, I seem to be having some problems lately