Comment on Eleazar's Terrain Improvements or other threads

[Eleazar]

I found two things:
- ruined keep is displayed on top of winter castle keep
- part of chasm transition is displayed over lava hexes if they are surrounded by chasm

Thanks.

1) looking into it
2) I haven't modernized all the lava transitions yet

[matthiaskrgr]

Some missing transitions.

[Alarantalara]

The flowers overlap the forest. They seem fine against other terrain.

[zookeeper]

Okay, I see why that is. I'll see what I can come up with.

[Eleazar]

Some missing transitions.

The sand dunes issue i fixed a while ago.

The underwater bank is a much trickier issue.
If i can get boucman or zookeeper to make a modified version of the NEW:BEACH macro that allows be to specify the 3 possible surrounding terrain types of a corner transition, i think i can get the underwater part of the bank to side under the ice, merge with the mud, and maybe even soften the edge between the dirt bank and sand.

EDIT:

On reflection, maybe it is two more macros.

For corners created by terrain such as dirt/sand and ice/swamp, and water (marked in green), i'd want to treat two of these three as "water" for the purposes of choosing convex/concave.

To place a transitional color between dirt and sand, two of the three hexes would need to be considered "land" for purposes of choosing convex/concave. In the example, those are marked in red.

[Eleazar]

OK, thanks mostly to zookeeper the issues mentioned by the last two posters are fixed.

[Crendgrim]

I think this is the best place to mention this.
I installed the 1.9 trunk and was really impressed by all this new terrains

But there are three things I discovered:

-

1: The wooden floor needs transitions - especially to the water - so it could be used for a terrace or something similar.
2: Is it possible to make the bridge combined even while facing in two directions? (you can see the problem in the screenshot)
3: The rails are only an overlay - is it possible to improve this if it's on top of a chasm? So that there would be a small bridge? It's looking really weird ...

But ... you did a really good job.
After having seen all those new stuff, I don't really want to switch back to 1.8.5 .. it's great


Crendgrim

PS:
I don't know where else to place this question: Why is the castle bridge not also only an overlay? Then it could be used also "on top of the earth"...

[Alarantalara]

3: The rails are only an overlay - is it possible to improve this if it's on top of a chasm? So that there would be a small bridge? It's looking really weird ... ;)

As the person who drew the rails, I can answer this question. The answer is not without a lot of effort. lurker had been working on a fancier chasm bridge and discovered that the WML macros didn't support it yet (see here for a outline of the problems). The rails would have the same problem.

Also, it's a terrifying number of images to draw, especially since once you start drawing bridges for the rails, you'll want a second set for over water, a third set for over lava, etc. To put it in perspective, the only terrains with more images than the bridges and rails are water (which is animated) and the castles with keeps. This probably applies to the your second question as well: the stone bridge actually needs more images than the wooden one despite not bending.

Personally, I think it's nothing short of amazing that so many very complicated terrains appeared at the same time.

[tr0ll]

Wouldnt there be a castle corner/tower tile where there is a turn in a stone bridge?

Also, a wooden floor should never need transitions to water or grass since they shouldnt occur outside, unless its some sort of flooding scenario. or ruins which might need rotting wood or broken/overgrown sections, and as soon as you have weak floors you have the likelihood of...
traps!
a whole new area of wml fun

[doofus-01]

I don't know what Eleazar's plans were for the wooden floor, but I can probably get a transition that straightens the hex-sawtooth edges done soonish. If it's needed.

tangent:

Not to discourage anyone from reporting glitches, but along the lines of what Alarantalara was saying: I'd think the test for whether transitions are lacking is whether there is a problem using the terrain, not whether it is possible to make weird-looking nonsense with the editor.

[Eleazar]

I think this is the best place to mention this.

Yep, this is the right place. Thanks for the plaudits, credit goes to several other people as well, including a couple that replied to you.

1: The wooden floor needs transitions - especially to the water - so it could be used for a terrace or something similar.

Yeah every terrain needs transitions. I rushed that out before a release. Doofus feel free to make transitions, i never got started on any. I'm not very concerned with wood-floor/water. Mainly it should transition nicely with dirt and cobbles, but a transition that works there will make the transition with water look better.

Why is the castle bridge not also only an overlay? Then it could be used also "on top of the earth"...

I'm not sure what you mean by "castle bridge". All the bridges are overlays. SHIFT+Click to apply bridges (or any other overlay terrain, without the default base-- If the have a default.

[Kraus]

Yeah ever terrain needs transitions. I rushed that out before a release. Doofus feel free to make transitions, i never got started on any. I'm not very concerned with wood-floor/water. Mainly it should transition nicely with dirt and cobbles, but a transition that works there will make the transition with water look better.

In mainline wooden floor is used with water in UtBS 8. Out of the Frying Pan. The lack of transitions hurt here. I'm not sure if there are other scenarios in mainline using the wooden floor. That taken into account, wouldn't it be a good idea to first focus on the to-water transition, instead of cobble/dirt, or make changes to the UtBS scenario?

[zookeeper]

Yeah ever terrain needs transitions. I rushed that out before a release. Doofus feel free to make transitions, i never got started on any. I'm not very concerned with wood-floor/water. Mainly it should transition nicely with dirt and cobbles, but a transition that works there will make the transition with water look better.

In mainline wooden floor is used with water in UtBS 8. Out of the Frying Pan. The lack of transitions hurt here. I'm not sure if there are other scenarios in mainline using the wooden floor. That taken into account, wouldn't it be a good idea to first focus on the to-water transition, instead of cobble/dirt, or make changes to the UtBS scenario?

Good catch. I've now added a UtBS-specific transition (using the core water transition images) between the shallow gray water and the wooden floor to fix that issue. I don't think there are any other scenarios using that combination.

[doofus-01]

Yeah every terrain needs transitions. I rushed that out before a release. Doofus feel free to make transitions, i never got started on any. I'm not very concerned with wood-floor/water. Mainly it should transition nicely with dirt and cobbles, but a transition that works there will make the transition with water look better.

Will this work? I didn't draw edges on it because it stands out less without them.

[Eleazar]

Looks like you are trying to change the perspective of the ends. Red marks yours, Green marks my original lines.

floor.jpg (163.81 KiB) Viewed 3418 times

That angle is important and not arbitrary, it matches the walls and anything that goes straight across a line of hexes going diagonal. Its the angle you get drawing a straight line across these corners of hexes:

angle.jpg (89.73 KiB) Viewed 3418 times

I'm not exactly sure what your concept is. The ends are all irregular (angle and shape) but the don't seem damaged or weathered.

I didn't draw edges on it because it stands out less without them.

Probably so, but i think without some sort of edge it also looks 2 dimensional, we would see something on the southerns side.