Comment on Eleazar's Terrain Improvements or other threads

Contribute art for mainline Wesnoth.

Moderator: Forum Moderators

Forum rules
Before posting critique in this forum, you must read the following thread:
Post Reply
User avatar
Eleazar
Retired Terrain Art Director
Posts: 2481
Joined: July 16th, 2004, 1:47 am
Location: US Midwest
Contact:

Re: Comment on Eleazar's Terrain Improvements or other threa

Post by Eleazar »

Quetzalcoatl wrote:I found two things:
- ruined keep is displayed on top of winter castle keep
- part of chasm transition is displayed over lava hexes if they are surrounded by chasm
Thanks.

1) looking into it
2) I haven't modernized all the lava transitions yet
Feel free to PM me if you start a new terrain oriented thread. It's easy for me to miss them among all the other art threads.
-> What i might be working on
Attempting Lucidity
matthiaskrgr
Posts: 20
Joined: September 13th, 2010, 2:53 pm

Re: Comment on Eleazar's Terrain Improvements or other threa

Post by matthiaskrgr »

Some missing transitions.
Attachments
strangetriangles.png
strangetriangles.png (53.72 KiB) Viewed 3478 times
missingtransitions.png
missingtransitions.png (146.3 KiB) Viewed 3479 times
Beta-tester of FreedroidRPG
User avatar
Alarantalara
Art Contributor
Posts: 784
Joined: April 23rd, 2010, 8:17 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Comment on Eleazar's Terrain Improvements or other threa

Post by Alarantalara »

The flowers overlap the forest. They seem fine against other terrain.
Attachments
aggressive flowers.png
aggressive flowers.png (60.06 KiB) Viewed 3314 times
User avatar
zookeeper
WML Wizard
Posts: 9742
Joined: September 11th, 2004, 10:40 pm
Location: Finland

Re: Comment on Eleazar's Terrain Improvements or other threa

Post by zookeeper »

Okay, I see why that is. I'll see what I can come up with.
User avatar
Eleazar
Retired Terrain Art Director
Posts: 2481
Joined: July 16th, 2004, 1:47 am
Location: US Midwest
Contact:

Re: Comment on Eleazar's Terrain Improvements or other threa

Post by Eleazar »

matthiaskrgr wrote:Some missing transitions.
The sand dunes issue i fixed a while ago.

The underwater bank is a much trickier issue.
If i can get boucman or zookeeper to make a modified version of the NEW:BEACH macro that allows be to specify the 3 possible surrounding terrain types of a corner transition, i think i can get the underwater part of the bank to side under the ice, merge with the mud, and maybe even soften the edge between the dirt bank and sand.

EDIT:

On reflection, maybe it is two more macros.

For corners created by terrain such as dirt/sand and ice/swamp, and water (marked in green), i'd want to treat two of these three as "water" for the purposes of choosing convex/concave.

To place a transitional color between dirt and sand, two of the three hexes would need to be considered "land" for purposes of choosing convex/concave. In the example, those are marked in red.
Attachments
beach.jpg
beach.jpg (189.25 KiB) Viewed 3180 times
Feel free to PM me if you start a new terrain oriented thread. It's easy for me to miss them among all the other art threads.
-> What i might be working on
Attempting Lucidity
User avatar
Eleazar
Retired Terrain Art Director
Posts: 2481
Joined: July 16th, 2004, 1:47 am
Location: US Midwest
Contact:

Re: Comment on Eleazar's Terrain Improvements or other threa

Post by Eleazar »

OK, thanks mostly to zookeeper the issues mentioned by the last two posters are fixed.
Feel free to PM me if you start a new terrain oriented thread. It's easy for me to miss them among all the other art threads.
-> What i might be working on
Attempting Lucidity
User avatar
Crendgrim
Moderator Emeritus
Posts: 1328
Joined: October 15th, 2010, 10:39 am
Location: Germany

Re: Comment on Eleazar's Terrain Improvements or other threa

Post by Crendgrim »

I think this is the best place to mention this.
I installed the 1.9 trunk and was really impressed by all this new terrains :D

But there are three things I discovered:
-
-
1: The wooden floor needs transitions - especially to the water - so it could be used for a terrace or something similar.
2: Is it possible to make the bridge combined even while facing in two directions? (you can see the problem in the screenshot)
3: The rails are only an overlay - is it possible to improve this if it's on top of a chasm? So that there would be a small bridge? It's looking really weird ... ;)

But ... you did a really good job.
After having seen all those new stuff, I don't really want to switch back to 1.8.5 .. it's great :)


Crendgrim

PS:
I don't know where else to place this question: Why is the castle bridge not also only an overlay? Then it could be used also "on top of the earth"...
UMC Story Images — Story images for your campaign!
User avatar
Alarantalara
Art Contributor
Posts: 784
Joined: April 23rd, 2010, 8:17 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Comment on Eleazar's Terrain Improvements or other threa

Post by Alarantalara »

Crendgrim wrote: 3: The rails are only an overlay - is it possible to improve this if it's on top of a chasm? So that there would be a small bridge? It's looking really weird ... ;)
As the person who drew the rails, I can answer this question. The answer is not without a lot of effort. lurker had been working on a fancier chasm bridge and discovered that the WML macros didn't support it yet (see here for a outline of the problems). The rails would have the same problem.

Also, it's a terrifying number of images to draw, especially since once you start drawing bridges for the rails, you'll want a second set for over water, a third set for over lava, etc. To put it in perspective, the only terrains with more images than the bridges and rails are water (which is animated) and the castles with keeps. This probably applies to the your second question as well: the stone bridge actually needs more images than the wooden one despite not bending.

Personally, I think it's nothing short of amazing that so many very complicated terrains appeared at the same time.
User avatar
tr0ll
Posts: 529
Joined: June 11th, 2006, 8:13 pm
Location: canada

Re: Comment on Eleazar's Terrain Improvements or other threa

Post by tr0ll »

Wouldnt there be a castle corner/tower tile where there is a turn in a stone bridge?

Also, a wooden floor should never need transitions to water or grass since they shouldnt occur outside, unless its some sort of flooding scenario. or ruins which might need rotting wood or broken/overgrown sections, and as soon as you have weak floors you have the likelihood of...
traps!
a whole new area of wml fun :)
User avatar
doofus-01
Art Director
Posts: 3945
Joined: January 6th, 2008, 9:27 pm
Location: USA

Re: Comment on Eleazar's Terrain Improvements or other threa

Post by doofus-01 »

I don't know what Eleazar's plans were for the wooden floor, but I can probably get a transition that straightens the hex-sawtooth edges done soonish. If it's needed.
tangent:
BfW 1.12 supported, but active development only for BfW 1.13/1.14: Bad Moon Rising | Trinity | Archaic Era |
| Abandoned: Tales of the Setting Sun
GitHub link for these projects
User avatar
Eleazar
Retired Terrain Art Director
Posts: 2481
Joined: July 16th, 2004, 1:47 am
Location: US Midwest
Contact:

Re: Comment on Eleazar's Terrain Improvements or other threa

Post by Eleazar »

Crendgrim wrote:I think this is the best place to mention this.
Yep, this is the right place. Thanks for the plaudits, credit goes to several other people as well, including a couple that replied to you.
Crendgrim wrote:1: The wooden floor needs transitions - especially to the water - so it could be used for a terrace or something similar.
Yeah every terrain needs transitions. I rushed that out before a release. Doofus feel free to make transitions, i never got started on any. I'm not very concerned with wood-floor/water. Mainly it should transition nicely with dirt and cobbles, but a transition that works there will make the transition with water look better.

Crendgrim wrote:Why is the castle bridge not also only an overlay? Then it could be used also "on top of the earth"...
I'm not sure what you mean by "castle bridge". All the bridges are overlays. SHIFT+Click to apply bridges (or any other overlay terrain, without the default base-- If the have a default.
Feel free to PM me if you start a new terrain oriented thread. It's easy for me to miss them among all the other art threads.
-> What i might be working on
Attempting Lucidity
User avatar
Kraus
Posts: 74
Joined: January 30th, 2008, 9:32 am
Location: Finland

Re: Comment on Eleazar's Terrain Improvements or other threa

Post by Kraus »

Yeah ever terrain needs transitions. I rushed that out before a release. Doofus feel free to make transitions, i never got started on any. I'm not very concerned with wood-floor/water. Mainly it should transition nicely with dirt and cobbles, but a transition that works there will make the transition with water look better.
In mainline wooden floor is used with water in UtBS 8. Out of the Frying Pan. The lack of transitions hurt here. I'm not sure if there are other scenarios in mainline using the wooden floor. That taken into account, wouldn't it be a good idea to first focus on the to-water transition, instead of cobble/dirt, or make changes to the UtBS scenario?
"Oh, to the hades with the manners - he's a complete [censored], and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!"
-Nalia De'Arnise
User avatar
zookeeper
WML Wizard
Posts: 9742
Joined: September 11th, 2004, 10:40 pm
Location: Finland

Re: Comment on Eleazar's Terrain Improvements or other threa

Post by zookeeper »

Kraus wrote:
Yeah ever terrain needs transitions. I rushed that out before a release. Doofus feel free to make transitions, i never got started on any. I'm not very concerned with wood-floor/water. Mainly it should transition nicely with dirt and cobbles, but a transition that works there will make the transition with water look better.
In mainline wooden floor is used with water in UtBS 8. Out of the Frying Pan. The lack of transitions hurt here. I'm not sure if there are other scenarios in mainline using the wooden floor. That taken into account, wouldn't it be a good idea to first focus on the to-water transition, instead of cobble/dirt, or make changes to the UtBS scenario?
Good catch. I've now added a UtBS-specific transition (using the core water transition images) between the shallow gray water and the wooden floor to fix that issue. I don't think there are any other scenarios using that combination.
User avatar
doofus-01
Art Director
Posts: 3945
Joined: January 6th, 2008, 9:27 pm
Location: USA

Re: Comment on Eleazar's Terrain Improvements or other threa

Post by doofus-01 »

Eleazar wrote:Yeah every terrain needs transitions. I rushed that out before a release. Doofus feel free to make transitions, i never got started on any. I'm not very concerned with wood-floor/water. Mainly it should transition nicely with dirt and cobbles, but a transition that works there will make the transition with water look better.
Will this work? I didn't draw edges on it because it stands out less without them.
Attachments
wood-regular.tgz
(19.67 KiB) Downloaded 239 times
boards-shot.png
boards-shot.png (395.52 KiB) Viewed 2637 times
BfW 1.12 supported, but active development only for BfW 1.13/1.14: Bad Moon Rising | Trinity | Archaic Era |
| Abandoned: Tales of the Setting Sun
GitHub link for these projects
User avatar
Eleazar
Retired Terrain Art Director
Posts: 2481
Joined: July 16th, 2004, 1:47 am
Location: US Midwest
Contact:

Re: Comment on Eleazar's Terrain Improvements or other threa

Post by Eleazar »

Looks like you are trying to change the perspective of the ends. Red marks yours, Green marks my original lines.
floor.jpg
floor.jpg (163.81 KiB) Viewed 2588 times
That angle is important and not arbitrary, it matches the walls and anything that goes straight across a line of hexes going diagonal. Its the angle you get drawing a straight line across these corners of hexes:
angle.jpg
angle.jpg (89.73 KiB) Viewed 2588 times
I'm not exactly sure what your concept is. The ends are all irregular (angle and shape) but the don't seem damaged or weathered.
doofus-01 wrote: I didn't draw edges on it because it stands out less without them.
Probably so, but i think without some sort of edge it also looks 2 dimensional, we would see something on the southerns side.
Feel free to PM me if you start a new terrain oriented thread. It's easy for me to miss them among all the other art threads.
-> What i might be working on
Attempting Lucidity
Post Reply