Troll Lobber and Warrior Profiles

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JWL
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Troll Lobber and Warrior Profiles

Post by JWL »

Hi. I discovered your group last year. Top notch. I was hoping you could use an unemployed art grad in the group?

I'm not sure if anyone is working on additional troll profiles or not. Here are some poses I was thinking of doing.
JWL_troll samples.jpg
I was kinda hoping to revamp the image of the troll. Here are two variations:
JWL_troll_stone fish.jpg
Here's one using a stone fish as ref for skin.
JWL_Troll_crustacean.jpg
These are exo-skeleton trolls.

I also like to draw dead things. If your group would accept it, I would like to do the walking corpse and souless profiles.
JWL_zombie samples.jpg
I also have interests in the blood and dread bats...
JWL_blood bat.jpg
JWL_blood bat.jpg (95.67 KiB) Viewed 4398 times
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JWL
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Re: Troll Lobber and Warrior Profiles

Post by JWL »

(continuing from last post...)
JWL_dread bat.jpg
Here's some color sketches as additional samples of my work.
JWL_wose 01.jpg
JWL_wose 01.jpg (153.86 KiB) Viewed 4393 times
JWL_wolf rider.jpg
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Monroid
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Re: Troll Lobber and Warrior Profiles

Post by Monroid »

I just don't know about that beige wolf, but everything else looks top notch! Congratulations! :D
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Speedbrain
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Re: Troll Lobber and Warrior Profiles

Post by Speedbrain »

Peanut gallery reporting in.

I think these look fantastic.

You will need to wait for the blue names (and Jetrel, thespaceinvader, Lordbob, or Kitty) to wander by to let you know about the potential for mainline. However, even if they shoot that down, I'm sure there will be many UMC authors who would love to use your skills.
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Valkier
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Re: Troll Lobber and Warrior Profiles

Post by Valkier »

Howdy. Sppedbrain probably meant the goldish bronzish names, as they are the ones in charge.

I like the style and whatnot shown. My main concern is all of the figures are rather flat and sketchy. Especially the colored ones, there's very little depth to them at all. The trolls, while very detailed, also seem very strangely proportioned due to their torsos being the same length as their legs.

I can tell you that while what you have here is good, none of it is really mainline style. It's very sketchy and visibly pencil. While that's not a bad thing in and of itself, you'll notice that much of mainline is more painterly in nature. If you have anything you can show us in that respect I think we'll be able to get a better idea of what you can contribute.
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Cloud
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Re: Troll Lobber and Warrior Profiles

Post by Cloud »

I'm not going to talk about the style, that's for our resident directors to handle (though I would pretty much echo what Valkier said despite being a Spriter).

What I will say is the portraits are genrally used to depict units away from actual combat (that's not to say they don't have weapons ready; they're just not using them at the time of the portrait). It's done because they won't necessarily be in combat when the portrait is shown.
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Speedbrain
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Re: Troll Lobber and Warrior Profiles

Post by Speedbrain »

Yeah, Valkier, you're right, whilst the blue names can give you good feedback, those four I mentioned above have the power to decide things.

By the way, it seems as though someone was working on trolls. Maybe it was just sprites, though. I can't remember.
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Jetrel
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Re: Troll Lobber and Warrior Profiles

Post by Jetrel »

Valkier wrote:I like the style and whatnot shown.
Yeah, me too. Your designs for the bats would be excellent. Likewise your designs for the soulless are great.

Your designs for the trolls are cool, but we already have a racial design for the trolls, which you can see from looking at the two mainline portraits of them, and we're not going to throw that away because you wanted to redesign them. I know coming up with new racial designs and such is fun, but that's job's already been taken and finished here, for the trolls. We can't accept redesigns, like that, of stuff we already have that's good (and consistent with the existing style) - it would be a step backwards for the project, and a slap in the face to the person who drew them.
Valkier wrote:My main concern is all of the figures are rather flat and sketchy. Especially the colored ones, there's very little depth to them at all.

I can tell you that while what you have here is good, none of it is really mainline style. It's very sketchy and visibly pencil. While that's not a bad thing in and of itself, you'll notice that much of mainline is more painterly in nature. If you have anything you can show us in that respect I think we'll be able to get a better idea of what you can contribute.
Your pencil work is absolutely excellent, and is mostly stylistically compatible (with the exception of that wolf-rider picture).

Your coloring work, I hope, is not being presented as "finished", because it's .. practically like you did no work on the coloring at all. Like you just did a single paintbucket fill on the figure, with no shading or anything. If this is what you considered finished, colored work, it's not acceptable for the game.

However, this might be an excellent opportunity for a collaboration. If you could post high-res scans of your pencilwork for e.g. the bats, another person could ink and paint them.
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JWL
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Re: Troll Lobber and Warrior Profiles

Post by JWL »

I kinda thought it was obvious that these were merely sketches. It would be foolish to commit one self when composition, color palette and junk aren't approved.

I'm sad about Cloud's comment. I always think action/movement poses give more of the sense of character. With the exception of the first lobber sketch, I don't think the other five are combat-poses. Aggressive maybe... But, if that's Wesnoth's thing then I'll rework my logic.

Yeah, I knew redesigning the trolls was a long-shot. I on occasion dance on graves, but I don't step on people's shoes. Oh well. This was a short-lived topic (chuckle). Unless someone approves of me to work on something.
Last edited by JWL on June 28th, 2010, 11:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
catwhowalksbyhimself
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Re: Troll Lobber and Warrior Profiles

Post by catwhowalksbyhimself »

I always think action/movement poses give more of the sense of character.
While that's all quite true, portraits are used heavily for dialogue in campaigns, and such dialogue usually takes place out of active combat. It would be pretty strange if a unit in the story, or example, was offering friendship, but the portrait players see doing the talking is in the middle of a vicious attack.
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Cloud
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Re: Troll Lobber and Warrior Profiles

Post by Cloud »

JWL wrote:I'm sad about Cloud's comment. I always think action/movement poses give more of the sense of character. With the exception of the first lobber sketch, I don't think the other five are combat-poses. Aggressive maybe... But, if that's Wesnoth's thing then I'll rework my logic.
I wasn't trying to put you off, just giving you a heads up as I'd spotted the lobber (and to some extent the wolf riders). Most are pretty much on track and as most have already said there's a lot of potential there.
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Re: Troll Lobber and Warrior Profiles

Post by Sangel »

JWL wrote:I'm sad about Cloud's comment. I always think action/movement poses give more of the sense of character. With the exception of the first lobber sketch, I don't think the other five are combat-poses. Aggressive maybe... But, if that's Wesnoth's thing then I'll rework my logic.
As a quick aside - Wesnoth supports "alternate portraits" for units. So if you were to create two "Troll Lobber" portraits, one in a combat-ready position, the other in a more traditionally relaxed pose, both could be included in the game, and scenario/campaign designers could pick and choose which one to use in dialogue.

As a project, Wesnoth is hugely open to variety; there's just an emphasis on trying to get all of the basics completed and consistent first, to help achieve a truly polished feel.

Oh, and let me echo everyone in welcoming you to Wesnoth. It's always good to see new faces around - especially when they're part of the portfolio of a talented artist. :wink:
"Pure logic is the ruin of the spirit." - Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
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boru
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Re: Troll Lobber and Warrior Profiles

Post by boru »

While that's all quite true, portraits are used heavily for dialogue in campaigns, and such dialogue usually takes place out of active combat. It would be pretty strange if a unit in the story, or example, was offering friendship, but the portrait players see doing the talking is in the middle of a vicious attack.
And now, a contrary point of view:

Most of the mainline campaigns make heavy use of the "last breath" or "die" event. These events require portraits. Many of those same campaigns also use "attacker hit/miss" and other events that occur during combat. Additionally, there is a lot of dialog immediately before and immediately after battles, not just in cutscenes. If you were to heap up all the mainline instances of pre-combat, combat, or post-combat dialog, and compared them to "a unit in the story for example, offering friendship," I think we all know which is more prevalent.

On the other hand, zombies, soulless, etc. generally don't do a lot of talking. Nor do the bats. Even wose dialog tends to be sparse. But trolls, well, I see 7 different mainline troll units and 2 portraits, so maybe there is some room for trolls.

JWL, that dread bat sketch is pretty terrifying. I hope you will develop it more. And the wolf riders looks like some demented children's-book illustration. It's unfortunate their faces are not at all like the Wesnoth goblins, but the craziness of the image is wonderful. Maybe you can re-work the faces ... sorry but as a non-artist I can't offer an in-depth critique.

Mainline standards are very high, and I definitely encourage you to go for it, but also keep in mind there are lots of UMC creators who would be very happy to feature quality artwork in their campaigns.
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My campaign: Swamplings - Four centuries before the founding of Wesnoth, the first wolf rider emerges from a tribe of lowly swamp goblins.
catwhowalksbyhimself
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Re: Troll Lobber and Warrior Profiles

Post by catwhowalksbyhimself »

Most of the mainline campaigns make heavy use of the "last breath" or "die" event. These events require portraits. Many of those same campaigns also use "attacker hit/miss" and other events that occur during combat. Additionally, there is a lot of dialog immediately before and immediately after battles, not just in cutscenes. If you were to heap up all the mainline instances of pre-combat, combat, or post-combat dialog, and compared them to "a unit in the story for example, offering friendship," I think we all know which is more prevalent.
Certainly there is nothing wrong with adding things like these as alternate portraits, but the main portrait has to be general use.
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Jetrel
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Re: Troll Lobber and Warrior Profiles

Post by Jetrel »

JWL wrote:I kinda thought it was obvious that these were merely sketches. It would be foolish to commit one self when composition, color palette and junk aren't approved.
I've run into a lot of artists who can pencil very well, but who really, seriously, can't color. Which is why I just stated that outright, rather than assuming your intentions.
JWL wrote:Yeah, I knew redesigning the trolls was a long-shot. I on occasion dance on graves, but I don't step on people's shoes. Oh well. This was a short-lived topic (chuckle). Unless someone approves of me to work on something.
[/quote]

Yes, would you care to work on those bats? Not replacing the current one, but supplementing them with the high-level versions.
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