Goblin Pillager

Contribute art for mainline Wesnoth.

Moderator: Forum Moderators

Forum rules
Before posting critique in this forum, you must read the following thread:
User avatar
Monroid
Posts: 157
Joined: May 15th, 2010, 9:03 pm

Goblin Pillager

Post by Monroid »

NOTE: The fire you see here was made by rhyging5

I revamped the Goblin Pillager and this is what I got:
Image

Some things I still need more work on are the net frames, and maybe a bit of the wolf's animation, but I'd like to hear from other people if there's anything else that needs improvement

I'll be working on the net attack next
Last edited by Monroid on June 26th, 2010, 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Vendanna
Posts: 624
Joined: September 16th, 2006, 10:07 pm
Location: Spain

Re: Goblin Pillager

Post by Vendanna »

While the effort looks really nice (and I'm not jetrel or someone with enough rank to determine the unit) I want to call attention to the attack animation, since atm its giving the impression the orc is hitting its own mount in the head with the torch.

I suppose that is not what you intended, but you should take that into account.

Otherwise, I cannot say more about the unit, tought its looking nice, and the fire from rhyging5
looks great.
"Mysteries are revealed in the light of reason."
User avatar
Monroid
Posts: 157
Joined: May 15th, 2010, 9:03 pm

Re: Goblin Pillager

Post by Monroid »

Yeah, my goal there was to make a slash like movement to spread the blazes so they could hit the targeted enemy unit

I'll try to rework the angle, thanks
User avatar
Vendanna
Posts: 624
Joined: September 16th, 2006, 10:07 pm
Location: Spain

Re: Goblin Pillager

Post by Vendanna »

You also should consider to make the wolf move/launch forward too, even if he isn't "biting" because it could look curious when the unit "slides" during the attack and the wolf doesn't move his legs.

If you use your frames as the pillager replacement, you can see it in game to see if there seems to be inconsistences during the attack part. Also its better if you get advice from higher ups, in case you can save them some work with the unit.

(and end doing it right from start) as Jetrel wanted to do.
"Mysteries are revealed in the light of reason."
User avatar
boru
Posts: 788
Joined: November 19th, 2009, 11:02 pm

Re: Goblin Pillager

Post by boru »

I'm trying to visualize this. You're a little guy on a wolf, you have a flaming torch in your hand, you're charging toward an enemy ... well ...

One way to do it is this: the goblin would have to lean very far forward, possibly taking the wolf by the scruff of the neck, the wolf is trained, so he knows he has to tuck his head down now (his tail might also tuck down at the same time), then the goblin reaches his torch forward as far as possible. He could then do a slashing movement without risk of setting his wolf on fire.

There may be other ways to execute it also, that's just my idea.

Yeah, the fire looks excellent.
“It is written in my life-blood, such as that is, thick or thin; and I can no other.” - J.R.R. Tolkien

My campaign: Swamplings - Four centuries before the founding of Wesnoth, the first wolf rider emerges from a tribe of lowly swamp goblins.
User avatar
Cloud
Art Contributor
Posts: 502
Joined: December 17th, 2008, 7:43 pm
Location: The land of pixels
Contact:

Re: Goblin Pillager

Post by Cloud »

First off...

I advise you to block it out, you'll get a feel for what the animation feels like before wasting your time shading.

I'll admit it's not an easy unit to animate, but there's a lot of freedom with two active beings. Use your imagination; the wolf could turn towards the camera as the Goblin makes a sweep, making it both a more powerful attack and a longer sweep. Another idea would be to bring the tourch the camera (right) side whilst still in the current hand and make an upwards sweep from there. You could even have the net disappear into Hammerspace(tm) and use a double handed sweep.

Another thing I'll mention now; exaggeration is key in spriting. You can go further than you think and still get away with it. In extreme cases you might need to have a bit of distraction to get away with it, but that's probably a bit too far currently.
Softly/SoftlySplinter on IRC. Will be lurking around more these days
Mainline Animations|The Væringjar
Art for these mead-sodden, bearded mushroom-junkies by Girgistian!
User avatar
beetlenaut
Developer
Posts: 2529
Joined: December 8th, 2007, 3:21 am
Location: Washington State
Contact:

Re: Goblin Pillager

Post by beetlenaut »

This is a good animation, but the motion is too restrained. You need huge, cartoonish motion with an exaggerated windup. The thug is a good example. Also remember that this guy will be sliding forward so the wolf will probably have to run or jump as well. (Obviously the current animation isn't in the mainline style, but they aren't going to replace it with something that still isn't, even if it's better.)

Edit: OK, so it's mostly what Cloud said, but not exactly.
Campaigns: Dead Water,
The Founding of Borstep,
Secrets of the Ancients,
and WML Guide
User avatar
Monroid
Posts: 157
Joined: May 15th, 2010, 9:03 pm

Re: Goblin Pillager

Post by Monroid »

Cloud wrote:First off...

I advise you to block it out, you'll get a feel for what the animation feels like before wasting your time shading.

I'll admit it's not an easy unit to animate, but there's a lot of freedom with two active beings. Use your imagination; the wolf could turn towards the camera as the Goblin makes a sweep, making it both a more powerful attack and a longer sweep. Another idea would be to bring the tourch the camera (right) side whilst still in the current hand and make an upwards sweep from there. You could even have the net disappear into Hammerspace(tm) and use a double handed sweep.

Another thing I'll mention now; exaggeration is key in spriting. You can go further than you think and still get away with it. In extreme cases you might need to have a bit of distraction to get away with it, but that's probably a bit too far currently.
I'll try the motion with the wolf turning to the player, Cloud, thanks a lot for your guidance too beetlenaut! :D
User avatar
Aura
Posts: 347
Joined: July 10th, 2009, 5:18 pm

Re: Goblin Pillager

Post by Aura »

The fire really needs to be shaded or added in using in-game halo effects to look the best.
User avatar
Monroid
Posts: 157
Joined: May 15th, 2010, 9:03 pm

Re: Goblin Pillager

Post by Monroid »

To help me with the new animation I'm making it on paper, like when you're making an animated cartoon

I'll edit this post and show it here it as soon as I get the results, and so far so good :)
User avatar
A-Red
Art Contributor
Posts: 495
Joined: May 6th, 2009, 1:21 am

Re: Goblin Pillager

Post by A-Red »

Regarding the base frame: while the wolf coloring is well done, the goblin is too obviously frankensteined--it should have a distinctly different flavor than the goblin knight rider. Since it's a pillager, it makes sense for it to be rougher around the edges, more like a bandit or a mercenary--sort of like the human lancer is compared to the knight. More leathery armor and a bandanna only, rather than a helm, might do the trick.
User avatar
Jetrel
Posts: 7242
Joined: February 23rd, 2004, 3:36 am
Location: Midwest US

Re: Goblin Pillager

Post by Jetrel »

Don't worry about the baseframe, I'm going to address that. I'm mostly concerned about him getting the body motion right.

As has been noted earlier, the actual motion of the goblin doing the swing is quite good. However, the wolf needs to move, dramatically because right now it's in the way of the swing. Horsemen in most videogames have a similar problem - their mounts' heads stick out further than the reach of their swords! :augh: So how does one solve this?

We can't do a "run past" attack like real cavalry would do, where rather than proper 'slashing', the cavalier just basically holds his sword out, angled back (rather than forwards), and lets his forward motion pull the standing target across his blade. So what then?

The trick is: Turn the steed almost 45-60°. You don't need to do an animation of it "running up" and then turning, just go immediately into the turn. The wolf will step to rotate itself so that the rider can swing his weapon in a full arc, and then step back. If you've seen any of the "Age of Empires/Mythology" games, this is a common idiom in them. I'm pretty sure the Viking light cavalry raiders do this.
Play Frogatto & Friends - a finished, open-source adventure game!
User avatar
Monroid
Posts: 157
Joined: May 15th, 2010, 9:03 pm

Re: Goblin Pillager

Post by Monroid »

Jetrel, could it be possible that the Pillager starts running around the targeted unit's hex for the attack animation? :hmm:

If that is possible, it would make a really killer animation, and the torch attack wouldn't be such a problem since the pillager would be closer to its foe

I could also work more on the pillager if you feel its necessary... A-Red's comment really made me think better... I could take off his helmet and leave him with a messy hair, but still with his "bandana" tied around his mouth just like the Fugitive or the Highwayman. It would look really cool too if he was kind of crouching on the mount rather than just sitting on it... I guess it would make him more... dynamic? Flavorful? :)
User avatar
Cloud
Art Contributor
Posts: 502
Joined: December 17th, 2008, 7:43 pm
Location: The land of pixels
Contact:

Re: Goblin Pillager

Post by Cloud »

Q1.:
Yes, you can move him outside the hex, though iirc it make it much easier* if you extend the frame by the same amount the other side: see the drake animations for an example.

Q2.:
Jetrel wrote:Don't worry about the baseframe, I'm going to address that. I'm mostly concerned about him getting the body motion right.
* From an WML perspective.
Softly/SoftlySplinter on IRC. Will be lurking around more these days
Mainline Animations|The Væringjar
Art for these mead-sodden, bearded mushroom-junkies by Girgistian!
User avatar
Jetrel
Posts: 7242
Joined: February 23rd, 2004, 3:36 am
Location: Midwest US

Re: Goblin Pillager

Post by Jetrel »

Monroid wrote:Jetrel, could it be possible that the Pillager starts running around the targeted unit's hex for the attack animation? :hmm:

If that is possible, it would make a really killer animation, and the torch attack wouldn't be such a problem since the pillager would be closer to its foe
That sounds ridiculously complicated. Just do what I suggested.
Monroid wrote:I could also work more on the pillager if you feel its necessary...
I really strongly do not want you to work on the base frame. Don't.
Play Frogatto & Friends - a finished, open-source adventure game!
Post Reply