Ripped material in Wesnoth

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Marco
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Ripped material in Wesnoth

Post by Marco » August 14th, 2009, 9:51 pm

Sadly, I have to tell you that, since an artist based many undead skeletal units (and the wraith) upon Final Fantasy IV skeleton graphic, even today the work of redrawing and replacing isn't finished: still Chocobone, Ancient Lich, Skeleton Cavalry (or what it's called) and Death Squire have ripped and modified graphics...

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Crunchy
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Re: Ripped material in Wesnoth

Post by Crunchy » August 14th, 2009, 10:00 pm

Well, concerning the chocobone, it would make more sense to have a skeletal horse or wolf (etc) since AFAIK there isn't any other chocobo creature in the game.
Last edited by Crunchy on August 14th, 2009, 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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thespaceinvader
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Re: Ripped material in Wesnoth

Post by thespaceinvader » August 14th, 2009, 10:03 pm

This was true some time ago. Changes have since been made to revise those units and remove the ripped material. What version are you using?

Two of those units are up for further revisions anyway - the Ancient Lich and the Chocobone. Not sure exactly when that will be, however.
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shadowm
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Re: Ripped material in Wesnoth

Post by shadowm » August 14th, 2009, 11:16 pm

still Chocobone, Ancient Lich, Skeleton Cavalry (or what it's called) and Death Squire have ripped and modified graphics...
We know since long ago. I attempted to make some replacement for the Skeleton Rider/Bone Knight and Death Squire, but they are still not quite ready for mainline. The Rider/Knight may also require waiting for the new mounted unit baseframes from Jetryl. Nonetheless, people are free to attempt new baseframes for these and the Chocobone.

The Ancient Lich replacement is reserved for the Art Director, however.

(Note that the Chocobone is mentioned in a recent post by him.)
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Jetrel
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Re: Ripped material in Wesnoth

Post by Jetrel » August 15th, 2009, 2:30 am

We know, and we don't urgently care; it's on the list to fix, but we're going to finish some more logistically pressing things first, such as WSAS. We took care of the skeletons themselves earlier, because they're visible and common units, but both the ancient lich and chocobone are extremely rare; you don't see them in normal multiplayer, for example.

We could quickly frankenstein the skeleton's skull onto them, but it's a waste of effort when we're going to replace the entire body of the unit later.
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A-Red
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Re: Ripped material in Wesnoth

Post by A-Red » August 15th, 2009, 3:32 am

I've started working on the Chocobone, for the record. Can't wait to see how the Ancient Lich will turn out.

Marco
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Re: Ripped material in Wesnoth

Post by Marco » August 15th, 2009, 9:10 am

This was true some time ago. Changes have since been made to revise those units and remove the ripped material. What version are you using?
1.6.2(Linux), 1.6.3(Windows) and 1.7.0 (Linux) and, since I am quite strict regarding copyright, I always have to remove these few images (when do I ever encounter a Chocobone or an Ancient Lich, anyway? So it's not a big loss...)
we don't urgently care
Ok, I know what you're meaning, but still this is a minor copyright infringment. And it's a pity too. A temporary replacement gfx would be fine, no? Even a simple palette change...

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Re: Ripped material in Wesnoth

Post by AI » August 15th, 2009, 2:00 pm

Marco wrote:Ok, I know what you're meaning, but still this is a minor copyright infringment. And it's a pity too. A temporary replacement gfx would be fine, no? Even a simple palette change...
A temporary replacement would work, but unless you want to throw in something ugly, you'll have to put effort into it that'll be duplicated with the permanent replacement.
And a palette change doesn't help, it'll still be a derivative work, which retains the original copyrights.

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Quietus
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Re: Ripped material in Wesnoth

Post by Quietus » August 15th, 2009, 2:04 pm

AI wrote:
Marco wrote:Ok, I know what you're meaning, but still this is a minor copyright infringment. And it's a pity too. A temporary replacement gfx would be fine, no? Even a simple palette change...
A temporary replacement would work, but unless you want to throw in something ugly, you'll have to put effort into it that'll be duplicated with the permanent replacement.
And a palette change doesn't help, it'll still be a derivative work, which retains the original copyrights.
Those sprites were made almost 19 years ago and i was under the awareness copyrighted material had a limited duration

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Re: Ripped material in Wesnoth

Post by JAP » August 15th, 2009, 2:24 pm

Those sprites were made almost 19 years ago and i was under the awareness copyrighted material had a limited duration
It has but its a lot longer then 19 years.
I think that its 75 years in this case but i am uncertain so don't take my word for it.

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Re: Ripped material in Wesnoth

Post by Otik » August 15th, 2009, 8:26 pm

JAP wrote:Quote:
Those sprites were made almost 19 years ago and i was under the awareness copyrighted material had a limited duration

It has but its a lot longer then 19 years.
I think that its 75 years in this case but i am uncertain so don't take my word for it.
It depends on state, it is different peroid of time in each. For example in Poland (my home country) that, in most cases, would be a 70 years after creators date of death. As far as i know situation is very similar in other countries.

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Jetrel
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Re: Ripped material in Wesnoth

Post by Jetrel » August 15th, 2009, 8:38 pm

Marco wrote:
we don't urgently care
Ok, I know what you're meaning, but still this is a minor copyright infringment. And it's a pity too. A temporary replacement gfx would be fine, no?
It's seriously not a big deal. There's no legal risk, because the world of law operates like this:
infraction * enforcement = punishment

We've been steadily trying to reduce "infraction" to zero; we actually had a very high amount in the earliest versions of wesnoth. A certain artist used commercial sprites to bootstrap both the game's art, and his own spriting skill - this is actually very commendable as a learning and development method in terms of effectiveness, even though it is illegal. But we're very near zero on this factor now, and we'll take steps to bring it all the way.

However, enforcement is zero already. No one has brought cases like this to court, ever - the only ones I've seen are cases against "clone games" like chrono resurrection, where literally the entire game is copied verbatim. Something like what we have would actually get thrown out of court.
Marco wrote:Even a simple palette change...
If you'd done your research, you'd note that it's already palette shifted and changed in shape slightly compared to the original. Also, 1 out of two of these is being replaced in the very near future by a contributor, anyways. The other will happen likely within the calendar year.

Be patient.
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Marco
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Re: Ripped material in Wesnoth

Post by Marco » August 16th, 2009, 11:36 am

@jetrel I know we don't really risk punishment, but an infringment is an infringment, even if not enforced (I'm not so innocent to think Square would sue us for a remote derivative work of a single frame belonging to a game published in the early nineties, but with the odd copyright-patent enforcement craze of these days...who knows?) Simply, I don't like the "spartan way", i.e. "if I'm not caught, than there's no issue at all". But let's cut this off now, I don't want to fuel a flame

@others for Palette Change I didn't intend a palette change of the ancient lich(LVL4) but making A.L. gfx out of a palette change of the Lich (LVL 3). Unfortunately, I'm not an artist, so I can't do these sprites myself. I also understand that coming out of the blue and saying "you're wrong! Illegal sprite!" is rather sad and annoying, I would have liked to come with an "here's the new ancient lich sprite entirely done by me instead of the ripped one" but my art skills are near to zero.

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thespaceinvader
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Re: Ripped material in Wesnoth

Post by thespaceinvader » August 16th, 2009, 11:41 am

As we mentioned, the Ancient Lich sprite is on line for replacement and will be completed as soon as possible.
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shadowm
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Re: Ripped material in Wesnoth

Post by shadowm » August 16th, 2009, 8:45 pm

Marco wrote:But let's cut this off now, I don't want to fuel a flame
Sure.

Issue answered and solved.
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