Canyons

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Elvish_Pillager
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Post by Elvish_Pillager »

Dacyn wrote:
Elvish Pillager wrote:One unrealistic thing: Walking Corpse Plagues a Gryphon Rider in a Canyon. There is now a Walking Corpes in a canyon, and it can get out easily.
the same thing can happen with Deep Water...
Yes, but Deep Water is not something that it seems a unit should be in, or something that a unit should not be able to get out of. A unit in a canyon seems it should not be able to get out easily, and the canyon's vertical nature will make nonflying units on it look weird.
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autolycus
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Post by autolycus »

A canyon hex, to me, is probably like a negative mountain to enter or leave. Dwarves would probably do well in it too. Since you can treat a negative mountain just like a positive one, no need for a canyon hex. But if it's in CVS already (it is, yes?) leave it... think of it as an underground railroad I guess. Make it look more like a gorge.
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Dacyn
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Post by Dacyn »

Elvish Pillager wrote:[Deep Water is not something that it seems a unit should be in
Exactly!
Elvish Pillager wrote:or something that a unit should not be able to get out of.
I don't see the difference between canyon and deep water except that one is filled with water. How would water help a Walking Corpse get out of it?

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Post by AT »

Can't corpses swim/float?

And whats the point of this discussion?
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Post by Dave »

A possible solution is to make it that plague can't create units in terrain that those units can't move to.

But I don't think it's a major issue anyhow.

David
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Neoriceisgood
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Post by Neoriceisgood »

Or we need to make a walking corpse version of every unit.

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Post by Christophe33 »

I remade most of the canyon graphics such as they tile smoothly with each other. I should be done by tomorrow with it.
In all the time I have played I saw a unit transformed into walking corpse only once...and it was because I voluntary let it happen to see it. The chance a walking corpse kills a flying unit over a canyon is rather slim. Even if it is the case, so what? you have a walking corpse that can go on the other side of the canyon. If it really trouble people, it could be set up to make a bat instead. Maybe any flying unit killed by walking corpse on any terrain should comes back as a bat.
I don't think the canyon is a reverse mountain, it's a very steep double cliff. No land unit should be able to cross it without special equipment (ropes and pikes) that it would not carry in war time. But in a scenario, one could make an object (rope) allowing a single unit to cross a canyon.
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Jetrel
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Post by Jetrel »

how about, instead of coming back as a bat, it just dies? I like that idea much better, mostly because I hate those bats...

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Post by Roel »

Jetryl wrote:how about, instead of coming back as a bat, it just dies? I like that idea much better, mostly because I hate those bats...
yes, it changes into a zombie and then it fals to death

Dacyn
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Post by Dacyn »

Roel wrote:yes, it changes into a zombie and then it fals to death
but then it could only be applied to units flying over deep water, and not flying units in general.

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Post by Christophe33 »

The new canyons with smooth tiling are finished. I tried to send them to Ayin but the server answered that both Ayin and me are over the limits of attached documents even though mine is only 4% full. I will try to post the zip file here on tomorrow. Then I will do some hills transitions that do not fall in the canyons. They should be usefull too for village and castle.
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Post by autolycus »

Christophe33 wrote:I don't think the canyon is a reverse mountain, it's a very steep double cliff. No land unit should be able to cross it without special equipment (ropes and pikes) that it would not carry in war time. But in a scenario, one could make an object (rope) allowing a single unit to cross a canyon.
Actually, depends on your scale. If a hex representing mountains can be scaled by anything short of heavy infantry, it makes sense that a hex representing canyon (unless with really fast rapids below, like a gorge) should be traversable with about the same effort. You'll need special equipment for mountains too...

Going down a double cliff is probably a bit easier than going up a double cliff, but going down into a canyon x feet deep and up again is probably not that much different from going up and down a mountain. If the mountain is really high, you get altitude problems and cold, but for a really deep canyon, there's this really high vertical climb to get out of it.

Come to think of it, an engineer-type unit would probably be better at going across a canyon than a mountain - you would have to drill through the mountain to have a route as quick as making a rope bridge across the canyon. But since Wesnoth's timescale assumes you can merrily spend 2 MP and cross mountains (or 1 if dwarf), canyons should be easier.

I suggest you make them look more threatening then... put a river at the bottom or something, or make them look more jagged, more intimidating, more a sheer drop from the edge of the hex.
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Elvish_Pillager
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Post by Elvish_Pillager »

autolycus wrote:Going down a double cliff is probably a bit easier than going up a double cliff, but going down into a canyon x feet deep and up again is probably not that much different from going up and down a mountain. If the mountain is really high, you get altitude problems and cold, but for a really deep canyon, there's this really high vertical climb to get out of it.
It's not that simple. You can't just go down a cliff and go up the other, because there is no ground to cross between them in the middle. Not for a long way down, anyway.
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Post by Eleazar »

autolycus wrote:Going down a double cliff is probably a bit easier than going up a double cliff, but going down into a canyon x feet deep and up again is probably not that much different from going up and down a mountain. If the mountain is really high, you get altitude problems and cold, but for a really deep canyon, there's this really high vertical climb to get out of it.

Come to think of it, an engineer-type unit would probably be better at going across a canyon than a mountain - you would have to drill through the mountain to have a route as quick as making a rope bridge across the canyon. But since Wesnoth's timescale assumes you can merrily spend 2 MP and cross mountains (or 1 if dwarf), canyons should be easier.
All this anylisis is missing the point. Map designers want a terrain impassible to land units. No such terrain exists on earth. However, a chasm with the bottom lost in darkness looks impassible. It's not about being scary. Its about not having a visible path from one side to another. A visible bottom (as has already been discussed on the other canyon forum) of any kind makes it look easier to cross.

IMO Chasm-crossing engineers seem like a pretty dumb unit to add to the factions, unless its for a special scenario.
Feel free to PM me if you start a new terrain oriented thread. It's easy for me to miss them among all the other art threads.
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Neoriceisgood
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Post by Neoriceisgood »

If something has a cliffside to steep to climb; and goes down so low you can't even see the bottom; you' would not make it to the other side without technology at your side.

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