Canyons
Moderator: Forum Moderators
Forum rules
Before posting critique in this forum, you must read the following thread:
Before posting critique in this forum, you must read the following thread:
- Elvish_Pillager
- Posts: 8137
- Joined: May 28th, 2004, 10:21 am
- Location: Everywhere you think, nowhere you can possibly imagine.
- Contact:
Yes, but Deep Water is not something that it seems a unit should be in, or something that a unit should not be able to get out of. A unit in a canyon seems it should not be able to get out easily, and the canyon's vertical nature will make nonflying units on it look weird.Dacyn wrote:the same thing can happen with Deep Water...Elvish Pillager wrote:One unrealistic thing: Walking Corpse Plagues a Gryphon Rider in a Canyon. There is now a Walking Corpes in a canyon, and it can get out easily.
It's all fun and games until someone loses a lawsuit. Oh, and by the way, sending me private messages won't work. :/ If you must contact me, there's an e-mail address listed on the website in my profile.
A canyon hex, to me, is probably like a negative mountain to enter or leave. Dwarves would probably do well in it too. Since you can treat a negative mountain just like a positive one, no need for a canyon hex. But if it's in CVS already (it is, yes?) leave it... think of it as an underground railroad I guess. Make it look more like a gorge.
as kingfishers catch fire
so dragonflies draw flame
-GMH
so dragonflies draw flame
-GMH
Exactly!Elvish Pillager wrote:[Deep Water is not something that it seems a unit should be in
I don't see the difference between canyon and deep water except that one is filled with water. How would water help a Walking Corpse get out of it?Elvish Pillager wrote:or something that a unit should not be able to get out of.
swm
Can't corpses swim/float?
And whats the point of this discussion?
And whats the point of this discussion?
Gandalf-"I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the Flame of Anor. You cannot pass. The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udun. Go back to the Shadow. You cannot pass!"
AT- "That sounds like more trouble than it's worth."
AT- "That sounds like more trouble than it's worth."
-
- Art Developer
- Posts: 2221
- Joined: April 2nd, 2004, 10:19 pm
- Contact:
-
- Posts: 826
- Joined: January 21st, 2004, 1:10 am
- Location: San Diego, CA
I remade most of the canyon graphics such as they tile smoothly with each other. I should be done by tomorrow with it.
In all the time I have played I saw a unit transformed into walking corpse only once...and it was because I voluntary let it happen to see it. The chance a walking corpse kills a flying unit over a canyon is rather slim. Even if it is the case, so what? you have a walking corpse that can go on the other side of the canyon. If it really trouble people, it could be set up to make a bat instead. Maybe any flying unit killed by walking corpse on any terrain should comes back as a bat.
I don't think the canyon is a reverse mountain, it's a very steep double cliff. No land unit should be able to cross it without special equipment (ropes and pikes) that it would not carry in war time. But in a scenario, one could make an object (rope) allowing a single unit to cross a canyon.
In all the time I have played I saw a unit transformed into walking corpse only once...and it was because I voluntary let it happen to see it. The chance a walking corpse kills a flying unit over a canyon is rather slim. Even if it is the case, so what? you have a walking corpse that can go on the other side of the canyon. If it really trouble people, it could be set up to make a bat instead. Maybe any flying unit killed by walking corpse on any terrain should comes back as a bat.
I don't think the canyon is a reverse mountain, it's a very steep double cliff. No land unit should be able to cross it without special equipment (ropes and pikes) that it would not carry in war time. But in a scenario, one could make an object (rope) allowing a single unit to cross a canyon.
Never tell a dwarf that he shortchanged you!
-
- Posts: 826
- Joined: January 21st, 2004, 1:10 am
- Location: San Diego, CA
The new canyons with smooth tiling are finished. I tried to send them to Ayin but the server answered that both Ayin and me are over the limits of attached documents even though mine is only 4% full. I will try to post the zip file here on tomorrow. Then I will do some hills transitions that do not fall in the canyons. They should be usefull too for village and castle.
Never tell a dwarf that he shortchanged you!
Actually, depends on your scale. If a hex representing mountains can be scaled by anything short of heavy infantry, it makes sense that a hex representing canyon (unless with really fast rapids below, like a gorge) should be traversable with about the same effort. You'll need special equipment for mountains too...Christophe33 wrote:I don't think the canyon is a reverse mountain, it's a very steep double cliff. No land unit should be able to cross it without special equipment (ropes and pikes) that it would not carry in war time. But in a scenario, one could make an object (rope) allowing a single unit to cross a canyon.
Going down a double cliff is probably a bit easier than going up a double cliff, but going down into a canyon x feet deep and up again is probably not that much different from going up and down a mountain. If the mountain is really high, you get altitude problems and cold, but for a really deep canyon, there's this really high vertical climb to get out of it.
Come to think of it, an engineer-type unit would probably be better at going across a canyon than a mountain - you would have to drill through the mountain to have a route as quick as making a rope bridge across the canyon. But since Wesnoth's timescale assumes you can merrily spend 2 MP and cross mountains (or 1 if dwarf), canyons should be easier.
I suggest you make them look more threatening then... put a river at the bottom or something, or make them look more jagged, more intimidating, more a sheer drop from the edge of the hex.
as kingfishers catch fire
so dragonflies draw flame
-GMH
so dragonflies draw flame
-GMH
- Elvish_Pillager
- Posts: 8137
- Joined: May 28th, 2004, 10:21 am
- Location: Everywhere you think, nowhere you can possibly imagine.
- Contact:
It's not that simple. You can't just go down a cliff and go up the other, because there is no ground to cross between them in the middle. Not for a long way down, anyway.autolycus wrote:Going down a double cliff is probably a bit easier than going up a double cliff, but going down into a canyon x feet deep and up again is probably not that much different from going up and down a mountain. If the mountain is really high, you get altitude problems and cold, but for a really deep canyon, there's this really high vertical climb to get out of it.
It's all fun and games until someone loses a lawsuit. Oh, and by the way, sending me private messages won't work. :/ If you must contact me, there's an e-mail address listed on the website in my profile.
- Eleazar
- Retired Terrain Art Director
- Posts: 2481
- Joined: July 16th, 2004, 1:47 am
- Location: US Midwest
- Contact:
All this anylisis is missing the point. Map designers want a terrain impassible to land units. No such terrain exists on earth. However, a chasm with the bottom lost in darkness looks impassible. It's not about being scary. Its about not having a visible path from one side to another. A visible bottom (as has already been discussed on the other canyon forum) of any kind makes it look easier to cross.autolycus wrote:Going down a double cliff is probably a bit easier than going up a double cliff, but going down into a canyon x feet deep and up again is probably not that much different from going up and down a mountain. If the mountain is really high, you get altitude problems and cold, but for a really deep canyon, there's this really high vertical climb to get out of it.
Come to think of it, an engineer-type unit would probably be better at going across a canyon than a mountain - you would have to drill through the mountain to have a route as quick as making a rope bridge across the canyon. But since Wesnoth's timescale assumes you can merrily spend 2 MP and cross mountains (or 1 if dwarf), canyons should be easier.
IMO Chasm-crossing engineers seem like a pretty dumb unit to add to the factions, unless its for a special scenario.
Feel free to PM me if you start a new terrain oriented thread. It's easy for me to miss them among all the other art threads.
-> What i might be working on
Attempting Lucidity
-> What i might be working on
Attempting Lucidity
-
- Art Developer
- Posts: 2221
- Joined: April 2nd, 2004, 10:19 pm
- Contact: