My Terrain (Mine!)

[Wussel]

I really like it.

The blue windows do not work for me. I would replace them with stones.

The arch idea is great, but I am not sure f it adds to THIS castle. Maybe a real flimsy arch would do? Like ropes with sea tang.

I like the reef floor for the castle. Maybe even the keep.

The pyramid pillar head does not fit for me. The angle seems to be off too. Maybe some other sea item instead? Maybe have all round pillars? Would look more organic to me. Maybe hex pillars? Would make the window idea work better.

[doofus-01]

Zookeeper was saying that the arches could be used only on interior walls, which is cool. That way they wouldn't need to have anything underneath or in the middle, which would reduce the clutter. They also wouldn't need to extend from towers, the sides of the arches could replace the towers reducing their height.

Oh, I see. Well, in that case, I'm not so enamored of the idea after all. Maybe it can be added later, if someone else wants to do it.

[doofus-01]

Got some more progress. Not that some touch-ups aren't needed, but I'm ready to call this a stopping point for keep images, and go back to see about the castle shell/towers, then work on the keep-castle images.

[Eagle_11]

No offense, but the only thought that appears on my mind is "what an architectural [censored]" as i keep looking to the picture.
I can recommend trying to trim down the amount of tower variations such that it would make sense.

[vultraz]

I definitely like the placement of the towers, but I do agree that it might look better if they were spread in a more uniform fashion.

[Wussel]

I would keep the tower as a base for a maritim sculpture thingy. No windows and such. I like the outward shield. Maybe keep the variation to the thing on top of the base. Like seastar and oister and such. Maybe a pearl, a trident, a turtle, a whale or/and a seahorse? (Maybe not the greek pillar thingy.) I would keep the weathered look for all. they are in the open sea.If you go for a square base, the two different angles are maybe nice together. I would like a similar looking hex base or a round base too. But only one type.

I do like the square stones towards the grassland. The sea needs to be protection from that evil green.


One more idea: Additionally a makeshift keep. Like a big shell (as kingly seat) similar to the throne of the dwarven castle or the tent in the wooden castle.

[Eagle_11]

One more idea: Additionally a makeshift keep. Like a big shell (as kingly seat) similar to the throne of the dwarven castle or the tent in the wooden castle.

Hey now thats good! it could function well for the sea castle with net walls, since i assume they are like merman outposts.

[zookeeper]

Got some more progress. Not that some touch-ups aren't needed, but I'm ready to call this a stopping point for keep images, and go back to see about the castle shell/towers, then work on the keep-castle images.

Could you post the current keep tiles? I might as well experiment with those a bit in the meanwhile. I think it's currently hurt by the way the tower variations seem completely random, and I'd like to try and see how well more uniform setups would work.

[doofus-01]

OK, everything is in attached TGZ. It would be simpler to have one tower for convex and one for concave, but I thought the variety was better (still think so) and better to get the tower images up on the board. But if you have suggestion on how to organize them, I'm all ears, thanks.

merfolk2.tgz

(341.2 KiB) Downloaded 169 times

I took a first pass at one of the multi-hex reef variations, but the WML is random like a mountain macro, rather than a track macro, so it doesn't do much for pathways yet.
I also tried to change the castle shells/towers, not sure how much of an improvement it is, but I'm not too clear on what the problem is either. At least there are subtle variations now, if nothing else.

castle screenshot:

WML:

Code: Select all

#define OVERLAY_2X2_PL    TERRAIN    PROB    LAYER  IMAGESTEM
    [terrain_graphics]
        map="
. , 2 , .
, 2 , 2 , 
2 , 1 , 2 
, 1 , 1 , 
2 , 1 , 2 
, 2 , 2 , 
. , 2 , ."

        [tile]
            pos=1
            type={TERRAIN}
            set_no_flag=overlay   
        [/tile]
        [tile]
            pos=2
            type={TERRAIN}
        [/tile]

        probability={PROB}
        [image]
            name={IMAGESTEM}@V.png
            variations=";2;3;4;5;6;7;8;9;10;11"
            layer={LAYER}
            base=90,144  
            center=144,144
        [/image]
    [/terrain_graphics]
#enddef


{NEW:WATER_342_180         (Cmfy,Kmfy)          water/water 17}
{OVERLAY_RANDOM_L               Kmfy                        -350                           castle/merfolk/cobbles-keep}



{OVERLAY_2X2_PL        Cmfy     1                 -320          castle/merfolk/reef-big}
{OVERLAY_RANDOM_L        Cmfy                               -320          castle/merfolk/reef}
{NEW:WALL             Cmfy                (!,C*,K*)                    castle/merfolk/castle} 
{NEW:WALL             Kmfy                (!,C*,K*)                    castle/merfolk/keep}   
# does not exist yet... {NEW:WALL2            Kmfy                !,Ket,!,C*,Ke*   (!,C*,K*)   castle/merfolk/keep-castle}
{DISABLE_BASE_TRANSITIONS_F     (Kmfy,Cmfy)     non_submerged}
{TRANSITION_COMPLETE_LF    (Cmfy)       (!,Kmfy,Cmfy,W*,Ss)    0  non_fading  castle/merfolk/castle-to-ground}
{TRANSITION_COMPLETE_LF    (Kmfy)       (!,Kmfy,Cmfy,W*,Ss)    0  non_fading  castle/merfolk/keep-to-ground}  

###############################################################################
# These lines in core were changed, got tired of trying to override mainline   

# this one does not really do the trick, dedicated images are needed.  Could be an opportunity for dam or more dramatic waterfall
# {WALL_TRANSITION_LF   Qx*              (Cmfy,W*,S*)                             -90  ground  chasm/water}

# this one is important, gets rid of the brown aura
# {NEW:BEACH                 !,Cmfy,Chw,Khw,Khs,W*,S*,Xv,Qx*,A*,_*        W*         flat/shore}

[zookeeper]

Ok, I have a suggestion regarding the keeps. As I said, I think the current tower variations are a bit too random and chaotic; on maps, keeps are often just one hex, so having a different tower in almost every corner can look a bit too much like a crazy mishmash.

So, here's what I'd suggest: convex corners get bigger towers, concave corners get smaller towers/pillars. There could still be some random variation in the tiles if you want, but the basic form would be the same for all convex/concave towers. Then, you could similarly use another 1-2 types of pillars (without corals between them?) as the convex/concave keep-castle transitions (not pictured). That would mean you'd be able to use 4 different tower types for the keeps alone (still a lot, compared to the usual 1), while retaining a somewhat systematic arrangement.

[doofus-01]

So, here's what I'd suggest: convex corners get bigger towers, concave corners get smaller towers/pillars. There could still be some random variation in the tiles if you want, but the basic form would be the same for all convex/concave towers. Then, you could similarly use another 1-2 types of pillars (without corals between them?) as the convex/concave keep-castle transitions (not pictured). That would mean you'd be able to use 4 different tower types for the keeps alone (still a lot, compared to the usual 1), while retaining a somewhat systematic arrangement.

Slight variation on that, but going with the general idea. None of the greek columns are facing the right way yet, and there should probably be some transition between the keep & castle floors, but this is where it is going.

screen-shot:

[zookeeper]

I'm super annoyed right now. I had a reply typed out, misclicked, and lost it. So... short and abrupt version:

Looks good. Seeing it like that now, maybe keep-castle borders shouldn't have different convex/concave towers after all, but just one type.

Keep walls look so much better than castle walls now that maybe should use the keep walls as the castle walls, and differentiate them just enough that they can be told apart (the different floor should already help a lot). As it is, with the usual castle layouts (single keep hex surrounded by castle), you'd not even see most of the best tiles you got there. The current castle is nice though and I like the rope netting, so maybe we could turn it into an encampment-style castle; encampments are very useful for scenario design too, and the wall tiles seem close to being finished, with an encampment keep not necessarily requiring different walls or much other extra work.

[doofus-01]

Keep walls look so much better than castle walls now that maybe should use the keep walls as the castle walls, and differentiate them just enough that they can be told apart (the different floor should already help a lot). As it is, with the usual castle layouts (single keep hex surrounded by castle), you'd not even see most of the best tiles you got there. The current castle is nice though and I like the rope netting, so maybe we could turn it into an encampment-style castle; encampments are very useful for scenario design too, and the wall tiles seem close to being finished, with an encampment keep not necessarily requiring different walls or much other extra work.

Yeah, now that you mention it, the keeps & castles don't really go together so well. It makes sense to transfer the current castle walls to encampment. In that case, it can probably also be useful for Nagas and maybe even Saurians? Assuming that is a way to go, I've got two images to take the role of the tent in the default encampment, at least for now.

keep2.png (7.97 KiB) Viewed 6699 times

keep.png (7.87 KiB) Viewed 6699 times

If that sounds good, all that is missing (I think) is chasm transition and another (less derivative) keep/tent variation. Then focus can go back to merfolk castle.

[beetlenaut]

If that sounds good,

So we are going to get a castle and an encampment? Sounds great to me. I like those two new keep images.

[Amorphous]

Just wanna say that there is a lot of awesomeness floating around in this thread. Everything is looking really cool.

Small nitpick because I'm a pretentious art history geek: the shape and volume of the ionic capital looks a little odd to me. These references might help if you feel like making such a small change.