My Terrain (Mine!)

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Re: My Terrain (Mine!)

Postby doofus-01 » September 19th, 2016, 1:37 am

The castles are now in Pull Request 791:
https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/pull/791
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Re: My Terrain (Mine!)

Postby doofus-01 » September 24th, 2016, 6:49 pm

As requested in the PR, here is a screen-shot:
Spoiler:

The yellow arrows point to where my current WML just needs revision, to handle the keep-castle corner cases more gracefully. I almost think I see what to do.
But the red arrows point to the corner cases where I don't see how the images can ever work without an explosion of images and rules (or allowing the images to spill out of the hex ;) ). A "baked in" keep-to-ground transition would have slightly different problems, but similar effect.

I think maybe the best thing to do is forget about different keep-water/keep-ground images, just get one thing that doesn't look too bad on either water or grass.
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Re: My Terrain (Mine!)

Postby zookeeper » September 25th, 2016, 12:27 am

Okay, I see the problem.

I think we could make it work like this: bake the transitions into the walls (so, two sets of walls). That'll result in the same problem as with current sunken ruins. However, I could then do some WML work to make sure that the castle-to-water walls aren't used in corners where they'd look particularly bad. For example (see attachment), the three corners pointed at by your two red arrows would become land corners, and only the ones I've circled in pink would be water corners. It's not perfect, but I think it ought to basically hide all the major glitches. Or am I missing something?

EDIT: The south-facing gate next to the top-left pink-circled tower would either be split in half (left half water, right half land), or be entirely water if the water corner is on the left side and entirely land if the water corner is on the right side (or vice versa), and neither would look very good.
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Re: My Terrain (Mine!)

Postby doofus-01 » September 25th, 2016, 6:24 pm

I think I have a fix, though I haven't tried it with the keep-castle images yet. Just making a fuzzy bottom keep-to-ground version for water seems to work.
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Re: My Terrain (Mine!)

Postby zookeeper » September 30th, 2016, 5:36 pm

In case you're waiting for feedback, seems perfectly good in that screenshot as far as the ground/water connections go. There's still some grass showing through in certain places such as 20,200 (but also more subtly elsewhere) and the south gates expose a bit of the southern hex (especially the water version).
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Re: My Terrain (Mine!)

Postby doofus-01 » October 1st, 2016, 11:34 am

I was actually waiting for the weekend, but feedback's good too.
zookeeper wrote:the south gates expose a bit of the southern hex (especially the water version).
That was by design (really visible if you put a snow hex to the south). Is that a problem? I think the crossbar obfuscates the base layer transition enough, but maybe I'm overlooking something.
EDIT:Actually, I think I see the problem, the transition with grass isn't like the transition with snow. Assuming the snow transition is OK, I think this can be fixed on WML side.
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Re: My Terrain (Mine!)

Postby zookeeper » October 1st, 2016, 3:29 pm

doofus-01 wrote:That was by design (really visible if you put a snow hex to the south). Is that a problem? I think the crossbar obfuscates the base layer transition enough, but maybe I'm overlooking something.
EDIT:Actually, I think I see the problem, the transition with grass isn't like the transition with snow. Assuming the snow transition is OK, I think this can be fixed on WML side.

It's not a problem as such that the south hex shows, it's just that it has a hard transitionless edge there. The latest screenshots show only two horizontal crossbars on the gates, but it looks like you could just add a third right at the hex edge (on both north and south gates), hiding the hard cuts behind them. I tried that and it looks like it works nicely, even though the crossbars are only 2px thick.

So, that would probably work for the water version. For land, is there any particular reason why the south hex shows through by design? It looks like there's currently a gap of only 3px which could easily be filled by turning the slab underneath the gate into a few stone steps or something. The slab is missing from the north-facing side too, but you're probably aware of that.

To summarize what my suggestions would be: 1) add a third horizontal crossbar to the castle-to-water north and south gates to hide the hex edges, and 2) enlarge the stone underneath the castle-to-ground south-facing gate so that it covers the top edge of the south hex entirely, and add the same stone thingy to the north-facing gate too. Those would seem like the simplest solutions to me.
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Re: My Terrain (Mine!)

Postby doofus-01 » October 1st, 2016, 8:13 pm

zookeeper wrote:It's not a problem as such that the south hex shows, it's just that it has a hard transitionless edge there.
Yeah, snow has a transition, and I was using that to test since the grass is too hard to see. But it's easy enough to add another crossbar, as you say.

I've made some updates and pushed to the current PR #791 for this. There is still some work to do, some of the combo keep-to-ground images are misaligned, for example. But there's a plan for dealing with corner cases for these keep-to-ground type transition images.

There's a bad commit in the PR because I can't get this git rebase crap to work and don't particularly want to waste any more time on it. If necessary, I can just scrap the PR when this is done, and make a new one to be committed.
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Re: My Terrain (Mine!)

Postby doofus-01 » October 2nd, 2016, 3:43 am

zookeeper wrote:For land, is there any particular reason why the south hex shows through by design?
I was thinking that if the base was at a lower level, it would make sense for snow or grass or sand to fall down into it. But upon further review, I see that would require some (possibly image-explosive) changes to the wall images. So never mind, you were right as usual, and I've gone with a general DISABLE_BASE_TRANSITIONS.

Here is a shot of what I've just pushed:
Spoiler:


There are some things that could use refinement, such as making the straight keep-castle transitions have an open gate. But I'm trying to get the obviously "broken" transitions out of the way, and I think it's just about there. I think the WML works.

Let me know if there is a problem with the plan. If it is just a matter of details to the existing images, I can deal with that later. Thanks.
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Re: My Terrain (Mine!)

Postby zookeeper » October 2nd, 2016, 10:09 am

doofus-01 wrote:There are some things that could use refinement, such as making the straight keep-castle transitions have an open gate. But I'm trying to get the obviously "broken" transitions out of the way, and I think it's just about there. I think the WML works.

Let me know if there is a problem with the plan. If it is just a matter of details to the existing images, I can deal with that later. Thanks.

Looks like you didn't add the third crossbar to castle-to-water south gate after all? There's more stone rubble, but no crossbar.

You did add the third crossbar to castle-to-ground though, which looks like it'll work nicely instead of raising the slab, but the spacing of the bars is now uneven so the middle crossbar should be moved down 1px or the top crossbar up 2px. The north gate is still missing the slab, but I don't know if that's intentional or not.

Other than that the plan looks good based on the screenshot. Looking at the PR, I can't really tell what the masking is needed for exactly so I can't say whether it makes sense or not.
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Re: My Terrain (Mine!)

Postby doofus-01 » October 2nd, 2016, 2:20 pm

zookeeper wrote:Looks like you didn't add the third crossbar to castle-to-water south gate after all? There's more stone rubble, but no crossbar.
Yeah, I though I could cover the edge with the rubble, for some variety. I can add the crossbar.
zookeeper wrote:You did add the third crossbar to castle-to-ground though, which looks like it'll work nicely instead of raising the slab, but the spacing of the bars is now uneven so the middle crossbar should be moved down 1px or the top crossbar up 2px. The north gate is still missing the slab, but I don't know if that's intentional or not.
OK, I will change that.
zookeeper wrote:Other than that the plan looks good based on the screenshot. Looking at the PR, I can't really tell what the masking is needed for exactly so I can't say whether it makes sense or not.
The masks keep the corners of the keep-to-ground type images from poking into places they shouldn't. For example, take the castle/keep doublet on the right edge of the screenshot. Without the masks, the castle-to-ground image would overlap the keep's waterway on the NW facing wall. Also, the concave corners where the castle-to-ground and keep-to-ground images meet would require special rules and images without the masks.
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Re: My Terrain (Mine!)

Postby doofus-01 » October 2nd, 2016, 11:56 pm

I've updated the PR. I _think_ all the major aspects for these are done now.
EDIT:If it helps, here is a screen-shot
Spoiler:

There is a line commented out near line 593 of terrain-graphics.cfg that would get rid of the brown banks at the water-castle transition. I'm not sure if it is better to have them or not.
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Re: My Terrain (Mine!)

Postby zookeeper » October 6th, 2016, 9:02 pm

All right, these are now in. Do you have intentions for animating the water on the keep towers/walls?
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Re: My Terrain (Mine!)

Postby doofus-01 » October 7th, 2016, 1:33 am

zookeeper wrote:Do you have intentions for animating the water on the keep towers/walls?
Originally I had planned to do so, but after our discussion of too many images spilling into a hex, it sounds like it might not be a good idea. I certainly plan to have more variations at the keep tower tops though, some of them are too cut & paste right now. The castle walls could probably use more variation as well.
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Re: My Terrain (Mine!)

Postby vultraz » October 7th, 2016, 5:36 am

I was wondering, if you get a chance could you perhaps make some 2-hex long tiles for the mine walls, the same way the Stone walls have? Right now they look a little awkward with them zig-zagging all over the place. But if they had a similar behavior to Stone Walls, we could mix and match the two styles and make really interesting mines. Could even be 2 terrains, if necessary.
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