My Terrain (Mine!)

[em3]

Maybe this bridge could be used for 1,2 or 3 hexes combinations, max? Then the curve could be adjusted to fit perfectly...

For longer bridges something like this could be used (a support every couple of hexes)...

[StDrake]

that's a decent idea, you could even go lazy and make supports on every tile aside the starting ones - that should make it easier to implement, maybe every second hex, didn't try playing around with terrain wml yet

[Eleazar]

I don't think that's going to work. Not because of any lack of artistic ability, you understand, but because it's a blatant breach of the laws of physics. It just doesn't look right.

Clearly, but breaching the laws of physics is nothing new to Wesnoth. Is this the consensus though: It just doesn't look right?

Yeah, i don't think there's a way to make it look not profoundly wrong when it is ~3 hexes long or longer.

I don't know if the WML is impossible or simply very complicated, but visually it would work ok, if you interspersed "islands" of raised rock to connect the high ends of the bridge to.

We've had terrains in the past that simply didn't work in certain reasonable configurations. Some of our current terrains still break in certain non-crazy combinations, though i think i've made a lot of progress in decreasing these instances. So i would be rather hesitant to introduce a new terrain that looked broken in a common use case, though i expect some UMC would be happy to get rope bridges even if they only worked right for short distances.

[doofus-01]

I've given up on this because while a big, Indiana Jones-style rope bridge sounds so cool, it has graphics problems but it also would make for a really crappy bottle-neck (gameplay-wise). So, it is just a can of worms best not opened. If I, or anyone else, has time to commit to a transitioning, directional, multi-hex terrain, best spend it on something else more worthwhile.

[Ninja_Master]

I think it would be worthwhile for someone to try to make a "cliff" tile to have for situations where a chasm would not work.

[beetlenaut]

Cliffs have been worked on before (do a search), but there were some gameplay questions that were never answered. Another question needs to be answered too: Who is "someone"? Not you I suppose.

[zookeeper]

some gameplay questions that were never answered.

Huh? It's always been pretty clear how they'd work: just like chasm.

[doofus-01]

some gameplay questions that were never answered.

Huh? It's always been pretty clear how they'd work: just like chasm.

I think he means the part about them being barriers between hexes, not occupying hexes. A unit can't stand on a chasm, but it would look odd if a unit couldn't walk on the nice, solid ridge of a cliff or mesa.

[zookeeper]

I think he means the part about them being barriers between hexes, not occupying hexes. A unit can't stand on a chasm, but it would look odd if a unit couldn't walk on the nice, solid ridge of a cliff or mesa.

Yeah, and I have no idea why people still keep bringing up that idea about them being barriers between hexes. It's never gotten any kind of real acceptance because it just doesn't make any sense to do it that way.

[uncleshelby]

I think he means the part about them being barriers between hexes, not occupying hexes. A unit can't stand on a chasm, but it would look odd if a unit couldn't walk on the nice, solid ridge of a cliff or mesa.

Yeah, and I have no idea why people still keep bringing up that idea about them being barriers between hexes. It's never gotten any kind of real acceptance because it just doesn't make any sense to do it that way.

I always thought that cliffs would act like impassable mountains, and the only way to climb up is going to the end of them. Is that how it would work?

[doofus-01]

I think he means the part about them being barriers between hexes, not occupying hexes. A unit can't stand on a chasm, but it would look odd if a unit couldn't walk on the nice, solid ridge of a cliff or mesa.

Yeah, and I have no idea why people still keep bringing up that idea about them being barriers between hexes. It's never gotten any kind of real acceptance because it just doesn't make any sense to do it that way. :|

Conceptually, it seems very easy to understand - if chasm wasn't a hole, but had a solid floor, you'd expect to be able to walk around on it. Just the transition from chasm-to-flat would be an obstacle. Most transitions don't span an entire hex, that a steep vertical one would be the exception would be really odd. Hence, "between hexes".

That it doesn't look like something that would easily fit in with the way the engine works and is probably not worth the headaches it would cause, if that is what you mean, I can't argue with that.

[zookeeper]

I always thought that cliffs would act like impassable mountains, and the only way to climb up is going to the end of them. Is that how it would work?

Yes, except that they'd be unwalkable, not impassable. To make them visually span most of the hex, instead of being a thin vertical wall like in the mock-ups made from chasm tiles, is something the artist would have to deal with.

[Simons Mith]

Huh? It's always been pretty clear how they'd work: just like chasm.

I think he means the part about them being barriers between hexes, not occupying hexes. A unit can't stand on a chasm, but it would look odd if a unit couldn't walk on the nice, solid ridge of a cliff or mesa.

Expanding on zook's comment...

Cliffs are very rarely vertical. It would be perfectly fine to have a hex of grassland at the top of a cliff, (that, the Gg hex - once it has suitable cliff transitions - is your nice, solid ridge) then a hex of crumbly 70-degree-sloped impossible-to-walk-on cliff, descending hundreds of feet, then a beach of rocks or whatever in the next hex at the bottom of the cliff. IOW cliffs providing a one-hex buffer zone (or more) between walking units - as chasms do - is fine, and perfectly vertical cliffs are just a distraction - unwanted, unneeded, harder to code, unrealistic, and nigh-impossible to get them looking artistically right, so we can safely forget about them.

Also, cliffs don't have to be entirely impassable. You can have cliff steps as a variant terrain.

[doofus-01]

Cliffs are very rarely vertical. It would be perfectly fine to have a hex of grassland at the top of a cliff, (that, the Gg hex - once it has suitable cliff transitions - is your nice, solid ridge) then a hex of crumbly 70-degree-sloped impossible-to-walk-on cliff, descending hundreds of feet, then a beach of rocks or whatever in the next hex at the bottom of the cliff. IOW cliffs providing a one-hex buffer zone (or more) between walking units - as chasms do - is fine, and perfectly vertical cliffs are just a distraction - unwanted, unneeded, harder to code, unrealistic, and nigh-impossible to get them looking artistically right, so we can safely forget about them.

You came up with a version that doesn't involve "between hexes". It makes full use of Wesnoth's inconsistent scaling and everything. That doesn't make the "between hexes" so hard to understand or "unrealistic". "Between hexes" would be too difficult to code, that's the only real reason I've seen for why it's bad. It's a good reason, but it's been buried in baloney here.

I should point out that I have no interest in drawing these things. This conversation was started by a new forum member "contributing an idea" - there is no new activity here. I wouldn't have posted anything if it hadn't been in my thread.

If anyone wants to keep talking about this or, even better, wants to take a crack at making cliffs, please move it to a new thread. (That way, I'll shut up )

[doofus-01]

Hey,

There are some bones and trash images in the "items" & "scenery" folders, but I think it would make sense to also have a less dense "embellishment terrain" as well (like the rocks, flowers, and little mushrooms). This is my first pass at that.

EDIT:Actually, would it be better to have two different "terrains", one scattered crap and one battlefield detritus, where one is just like a smaller (varied) version of the scenery/trash.png, the other is more bones and little metal bits and maybe a broken shield? The thing posted below is a muddled mix of the two...