JustinOperables Portraits- Great Troll

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JustinOperable
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JustinOperables Portraits- Great Troll

Post by JustinOperable » March 10th, 2009, 3:36 am

So I've been lurking around here for a while admiring the work, and I figured I would come out of hiding and try and get involved. This is a potential portrait for an Ogre. there are probably some technical problems with it. And I know the hands look like garbage and the linework is a little sloppy. The face is also sliding a little, but I figure Ogres are allowed to have their faces a little asymmetrical and bumpy. Also note that the pants will be striped, I started doing it, but Gimp crashes when i was most of the way through so I'm posting as is before I go any further. Anyways, I wanted to to ask if you all feel I should continue to refine this image, and to introduce myself, I'm interested in doing more portraits but I figured this would be a relatively easy start as sticking to the sprite means mostly just doing a little figure drawing. I actually just draw this all today so I can probably do better as I get the hang of things.
Last edited by JustinOperable on June 1st, 2009, 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Neoskel
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Re: trying my hand

Post by Neoskel » March 10th, 2009, 6:02 am

It's quite a promising start there, not bad at all really for an introductory piece.

I'm not one of the good artists around here, but i got a couple crits.
I feel that his head is just a little too small. Though i think get what you were going for with the proportionally small head. Captures the 'durr smash'-iness of the ogre well.

Another issue is his weapon, it seems a little too long and it's supposed to be more like a cleaver, i.e. the blade should be wider than the handle by quite a bit to retain consistency with the sprite. (Also much more choppy than those flimsy poles those scrawny 'umans use. :wink: )

Other than that it's really good work, it'll be nice to have an actual portrait for these guys.

Edit: Oh, and *generic praise*. Keep up the good work. :D

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TL
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Re: trying my hand

Post by TL » March 10th, 2009, 6:51 am

Good start, but proportions feel a bit off. Everything from waist down seems shrunken. This is probably the worst part. You could almost possibly write the rest off as "misshapen ogre anatomy" but the legs are way too scrawny. Short and stumpy is probably the way to go, but one way or the other they need beefing.

As mentioned, head is too small. This effect doesn't necessarily work in your favor: a larger head-to-body ratio is good for creating a "stunted" impression.

Arms actually could possibly use a bit of beefing up as well. Just a little. Obviously they're already pretty bulked up, but compared to his chest and neck muscles I might expect a little bit more. I dunno though. It might just be that the arms feel kind of long; again, short 'n stumpy might fit better. The legs and head definitely stand out as more significant issues though, so I'd take a look into those before worrying overmuch about the arms.

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Re: trying my hand

Post by mameluke » March 10th, 2009, 8:30 am

Neoskel wrote:I feel that his head is just a little too small.
TL wrote:Good start, but proportions feel a bit off.
Proportions may be different to humans.
May Ogres have a smaller head in proportion than humans?
For me it makes kind of sence... since Ogres seem to have smaller brains ;-)
(... and stronger bodies...)

imho great start for an interpretation of the Ogre.
thx!
I don't see any problems with an elf-woman hitting somebody with a mace...

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Sgt. Groovy
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Re: trying my hand

Post by Sgt. Groovy » March 10th, 2009, 8:33 am

I would also try a bit wider stance for the legs. Now there is a slight lean-forward, and with the legs together he looks too "sharp," like he's standing in attention, which contradicts his savage nature. Otherwise, it's a good start. 8)
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Tiedäthän, solmu kravatin, se kantaa niin synnit
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Re: trying my hand

Post by thespaceinvader » March 10th, 2009, 8:37 am

Looks like a very promising start. A few minor issues, though - the legs, as have already been mentioned, don't match the upper body in terms of bulk and musculature. They should. And don't forget that the trousers, unlike those seen in the sprite, probably shouldn't be too form-fitting, since this is a medieval setting and a crude being within one at that, and they probably don't have spandex =D Secondly, the eyes need much more detail - solid blobs won't cut it. The head in general could stand to be just a touch larger. Not by much, but it's currently very small which makes the ogre look very large - i read him as about 9 or 10 feet at present, he shouldn't be much more than 6 or 7. Finally, the cleaver needs a lot more detail, but i suspect that's planned anyway.

Nice work, keep it up =D We always welcome new artists.
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Turuk
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Re: trying my hand

Post by Turuk » March 10th, 2009, 11:10 am

thespaceinvader wrote:Not by much, but it's currently very small which makes the ogre look very large - i read him as about 9 or 10 feet at present, he shouldn't be much more than 6 or 7.
Out of curiosity, what, are the limitations on how tall a person or creature is allowed to appear? Are ogres not allowed to be tall? I don't know that I would make everything roughly human-sized, at least when the individual in question is humanoid to begin with, and so height and bulk would help him stand apart. That and being plain butt ugly.


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Re: trying my hand

Post by thespaceinvader » March 10th, 2009, 11:57 am

I'm making up those limits off the top of my head, really, based on the amount of damage the ogre does and the relative heights of the sprites.

In regards to RL heights i'd probably pitch it around these levels:

Goblin - shortest at around 3'6" to 4'
Dwarf - 4' - 5' at the tallest. Saurians are about equal with dwarves, thought their posture hunches them to a great extent. From nose to tail tip they'd probably run to about 6' to 7'
Human - slightly shorter than the RL human average to reflect the setting's poorer nutrition etc
Elves/orcs - roughyl the same at around 6', though orcs stand with a distinct hunch that puts them around human height when standing normally - their builds are completely different.
Ogres - young are abotu human height, adult about 6'6" to 7'. They still tower head and shoudlers over the average human
Trolls - between 7' and up depending on age. Whelps would stand about human height if they could stand upright.
Drakes - about even with trolls. Topping out, wings excluded, at about 10' for the biggest.
Woses - tree-sized. Making portraits for them is goign to eb a mare under the current schema...
Mers and nagas stand at around human height in normal circumstances, but their tails extend out to 10 feet or so.

This is only my idea of things, though - i've not really codified it before, so it's up for review.
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Re: trying my hand

Post by Skizzaltix » March 10th, 2009, 3:12 pm

Looks good!
Aside from what's already been mentioned about proportions and stance, is it just my imagination, or is the cleaver blade going in a slightly different direction than the handle? :hmm:
By the way, I like the cleaver design--It really evokes the "hunk of metal with piece of wood tied on" style of craftsmanship :D
Keep it up!

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Re: trying my hand

Post by JW » March 10th, 2009, 4:28 pm

Sgt. Groovy wrote:I would also try a bit wider stance for the legs. Now there is a slight lean-forward, and with the legs together he looks too "sharp," like he's standing in attention, which contradicts his savage nature. Otherwise, it's a good start. 8)
I have to agree with this, it stood out glaringly to me. It's a very good start - much better than many potential contributors in the past - but these legs seem like they belong more on a ballerina than a massive ogre.

From the number of replies you've gotten already (from art contribs nonetheless) you should feel quite confident in your potential!! Keep up the good work! :wink:

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Sgt. Groovy
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Re: trying my hand

Post by Sgt. Groovy » March 10th, 2009, 4:35 pm

And don't forget that the trousers, unlike those seen in the sprite, probably shouldn't be too form-fitting, since this is a medieval setting and a crude being within one at that, and they probably don't have spandex
Men's trousers form fitting enough to be called tights predate spandex and other highly elastic fabrics by centuries. By knitting stretchy fabrics can be made without any high-tech.

But you're right enough in that ogre fashion should be cruder than humans'.
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JustinOperable
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Re: trying my hand

Post by JustinOperable » March 10th, 2009, 10:11 pm

Alright guys, thanks for the feedback, here's just the linework with some modification. I didn't change the head size or arm length because I want them to look sort of knuckle dragging and pea brained. The head size was intentional because I dont know if any of you have ever drawn a really obese figure model, but even on regular short humans, head size can be dwarfed by the girth our bodies sometimes reach. That and if you examine comic books, small heads, big muscles is usually a way of accentuating the size, power and stupidity of a creature. Much of fantasy and comic book art has characters with immense muscles and small heads. If it really bothers people though I can change it. I still think the left arm (right in the picture) looks too posed and stiff. I worked on the cleaver, I hope people like it better now, I intend to do a little more to it. And I made the legs thicker. I was partially trying to go by the sprite which seems to have tiny stubby legs, but I also just sort of have a habit of that from studying cartooning. My instinct is that there should always be curve and contrast in thick and thin elements, but I blocked em in thicker since everyone seemed bothered by that. I'll refine the linework when the drawing is approved.

Let me know what you think :)
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Sgt. Groovy
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Re: trying my hand

Post by Sgt. Groovy » March 10th, 2009, 10:34 pm

The hand holding the cleaver looks like it has tentacles instead of fingers. Try to make them more jointed (consisting of straight segments).
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Re: trying my hand

Post by thespaceinvader » March 10th, 2009, 10:39 pm

If you're not going to change the size of the head, then it could definitely do with being a little over to the left - i don't think it's quite central on the shoulders at present. And smaller eyes would add to the dull impression. Otherwise, looks good.
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Re: trying my hand

Post by TL » March 10th, 2009, 11:59 pm

The sprite has short legs, which your portraits certainly convey here, but the ones on the sprite are still pretty thick. Not as disproportionately beefy as the arms, but not the least bit skinny either. The tweaked legs are looking a lot better.

I reiterate that the "pinhead" look you're going for does not necessarily have the weight you seem to think it does. Comic book and fantasy art is replete with examples of stupid hulking creatures with disproportionately large, often misshapen heads[1]. Taking a figure and giving it a head that's just a little below average proportions typically just accentuates the height and is often used to give characters a more athletic, majestic appearance; the long, relatively slender arms in the original contributed to this effect, although the tweaked arm musculature with its beefier deltoids is definitely helping bring things back to a stumpier, more squat appearance. That coupled with the already-misproportioned shape of the head and its smaller brain pan means you're probably okay, but I think it's worth considering.

[1]Dungeons & Dragons 3rd edition monster art. Contrast the stupid, brutish hill giant in the front with the intellectual, cultured cloud giant in the background. Note which one's head more closely matches the proportions of your ogre.

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