Outlaws - Finished!

[kitty]

Tiny update; I made him a tiny tad less beefy and he got a new face. I'm actually satisfied with this version - but I'm still willing to take more opinions into consieration...



tsi: Hmm, I fear I disagree with you - the things you are complaining about are pretty much the definition of a muscular man. The narrow waist contrasted by the wide ribcage, the head appearing small in comparison to the shoulder width, the toned arms etc. are what makes a man appear buffed. Example 1 (for a generally well built man with a small waist) and Example 2 (a male back which shows how tiny male waists can appear).
A more problematic issue I can see atm is that the chest appears very flat, but I plan to solve that by shading.

doofus: I only read you comment after I made these changes - moving the hand is definitely still an option. (btw your new avatar is just epic!)

[thespaceinvader]

Neither of those links work for me... Do you have an anatomy sketch of him? I know you sometimes do that, and I think it might help allay my issues - I've had a bit more of a think about him, and I think one of the problems I have is that i can't really read how his club arm comments under his sleeve. I'd expect his pectoral and deltoids to be bigger, i think. And the edits you've made to his club forearm now leave a very noticeably straight and thin forearm which suddenly expands, rather than having a relatively smooth widening as i think i would expect.

The overall effect of him I like, but I can't help the feeling that the anatomy doesn't quite work.

[kitty]

Do you have an anatomy sketch of him? I know you sometimes do that, and I think it might help allay my issues - I've had a bit more of a think about him, and I think one of the problems I have is that i can't really read how his club arm comments under his sleeve.

Anatomy sketch attatched, perhaps that clears up your issues.

And the edits you've made to his club forearm now leave a very noticeably straight and thin forearm which suddenly expands, rather than having a relatively smooth widening as i think i would expect.

Uhm, I didn't make any edits to the forearm holding the club...

[thespaceinvader]

Something like this feels more like it to me.

I think a particular issue is the biceps/pectoral join, where the biceps angles up just as it joins his shirt, it looks as though it just continues on up... Of course, you;re welcome not to listen

Maybe I didn't notice the issue with the forearm first time round.

[kitty]

I start enjoying this...

Notice that the neck/head is rotated, because of that the trapezius is turned around, too and cannot appear symmetrical. For the "flat" chest muscle - the arm isn't hanging down but held at an angle and by that the chest muscle gets stretched and becomes flatter due to that.

[thespaceinvader]

By jove, i think i've got it!

There's an apparent conflict between the direction the club is pointing, which seems to be quite far out of the block towards camera, and the direction of his elbow and arm, which seem to be parallel with the canvas. I think perhaps that it;s intended that the upper arm is parallel to the canvas, and the forearm is foreshortened out to meet it.

Maybe this will get fixed by shading.

[kitty]

I think perhaps that it;s intended that the upper arm is parallel to the canvas, and the forearm is foreshortened out to meet it.

Yep. That's why it is so short in comparison to the other one

[thespaceinvader]

Aaah, I've got it. I still think that the shape of that forearm is a little off, though...

[zookeeper]

I find the position of the club and the club arm a bit hard to read. Is he resting the club over his shoulder, just holding it there for posturing (like when threatening someone) or scratching his neck or back with it (while his mind wanders on whether he should rob that peasant over there or not)? It doesn't look like a relaxed position, firstly because head of the club doesn't look heavy enough to balance the weight of his arm if he was just resting it over his shoulder, and secondly because the club just isn't in contact with his shoulder.

The first version suffered from this much more than the latest one, since to me, his face now makes it indeed look a bit like some kind of an unintentional idle motion people tend to do when they're a bit nervous but not doing anything in particular, moving their hands and shifting whatever it is they're holding around pointlessly since they don't feel comfortable just standing still. Although I'm guessing that wasn't what you intended.

[Girgistian]

Liking the new face, that looks more like what you'd expect from a thug. Looks like an old class-mate of mine, in fact. Not a bright one either.

[kitty]

Pretty much finished Thug:

[doofus-01]

Nice job on the face. If the weapon were longer, might it seem more like he could be balancing it on his shoulders (for a more relaxed pose)?

[Girgistian]

Nice job on the face. If the weapon were longer, might it seem more like he could be balancing it on his shoulders (for a more relaxed pose)?

I think it could use that extra length, just to second doofus' statement.
And I'll be having nightmares for the next night thanks to his avatar.

[kitty]

Fin Thug, elongated the club on doofus' suggestion - thanks!

[Blarumyrran]

Is the club's crookedness intentional?