Return of the fencer, part deux

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kaoron
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Joined: December 28th, 2008, 8:42 pm

Re: Return of the fencer, part deux

Post by kaoron »

May I suggest to fit the fencer's chest and arms in a box ? His right arm makes me think that there are some major perspective issues making the chest look as flat as paper.

And the right hand holds that dagger in a very uncomfortable way, IMHO the thumb should be repositioned.

Good job :)

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Eternal
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Re: Return of the fencer, part deux

Post by Eternal »

kitty wrote:ups, sorry deserter! :oops:
Too many Finnish art contributors around, eh? :D

On the fencer itself: Nothing new really. Flat chest and weak-looking pose. Lift those shoulders and give a pose where his body and face are not aligned.
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example
example
I wish I had more time in my hands.

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Sgt. Groovy
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Re: Return of the fencer, part deux

Post by Sgt. Groovy »

I see what you mean, Eternal, but the "weak" look is not an accident, the stiff, puffy "alpha male" look of your example is something I'm specifically trying to avoid. In the unit descriptions the fencer line is said to differ from others not only in fighting style but also in physical caracteristics. They are also nobles unlike the others, who are drafted from commoners, so they should have a sense on superiority, which should be expressed in their body language. They don't go around stomping and huffing and puffing like the grunts, they are metrosexuals and act the part.

Anyway, I found some inspiration for alterternative pose, so stay tuned.
Tiedäthän kuinka pelataan.
Tiedäthän, vihtahousua vastaan.
Tiedäthän, solmu kravatin, se kantaa niin synnit
kuin syntien tekijätkin.

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Sgt. Groovy
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Re: Return of the fencer, part deux

Post by Sgt. Groovy »

Ok, yet another attempt (the shirt folds still pending). I'm not sure if he has now more spine, but I personally like the new head position and expression better (though I must confess I ripped it straight off from Caravaggio).

And before the complaints about the hand size starts, let me just say that I've measured everything and they are well within the bounds of anatomical possibilities, and I don't think small, delicate hands are in any way out of character for a noble youngster who's never seen any manual labour. But if some of you have well grounded reasons why the hands should be bigger, I'm all ears. :)
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fencerdeux3.png
Tiedäthän kuinka pelataan.
Tiedäthän, vihtahousua vastaan.
Tiedäthän, solmu kravatin, se kantaa niin synnit
kuin syntien tekijätkin.

kaoron
Posts: 22
Joined: December 28th, 2008, 8:42 pm

Re: Return of the fencer, part deux

Post by kaoron »

As an exercise, I just tried to make your fencer's pose a bit more dynamic, keeping the "weak" attitude.
This is my result :
fencertest.png
Hope you'll like it, I used this ref from the movie A Knight's Tale :
Image

Kao
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Updated with a few corrections
Updated with a few corrections
Last edited by kaoron on January 1st, 2009, 11:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Sgt. Groovy
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Re: Return of the fencer, part deux

Post by Sgt. Groovy »

Not bad, but it might come out as bit sluggish. It would depend on the expression and position of the legs.
Tiedäthän kuinka pelataan.
Tiedäthän, vihtahousua vastaan.
Tiedäthän, solmu kravatin, se kantaa niin synnit
kuin syntien tekijätkin.

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TL
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Re: Return of the fencer, part deux

Post by TL »

"Sluggish" seems to be the dominant problem of your latest revision, in my opinion. His pose and expression just make him look weary rather than bored. If this was just an average upper-crust snob this would be perfectly fitting, but the character in question is a skilled athletic fighter; I can't imagine the guy in your last portrait springing into action and kicking ass. I think kaoron's sketch does a better job of suggesting that he has energy but just doesn't feel like using it.

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zookeeper
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Re: Return of the fencer, part deux

Post by zookeeper »

I have only one request: please, please drop the codpieces. They're one of the most silly-looking pieces of attire ever invented, yet they feature very prominently on every single one of your fencers.

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Sgt. Groovy
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Re: Return of the fencer, part deux

Post by Sgt. Groovy »

In few hundred years time somebody will be making a game set in the 20th century and the portrait artist will be drawing men wearing suits and neckties. Another developer will complain: "Will you please drop the neckties, they are the silliest piece of garment ever invented. I mean it's a huge arrow pointing right at your crotch! Who the hell ever wore those things with a straight face?"
Tiedäthän kuinka pelataan.
Tiedäthän, vihtahousua vastaan.
Tiedäthän, solmu kravatin, se kantaa niin synnit
kuin syntien tekijätkin.

JAP
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Re: Return of the fencer, part deux

Post by JAP »

Just wanted to say that i like the sketches,(the direction kaoron took it in really is interesting) and i really think Sargent Groovy is on to something regarding their posture and physik.
Just look at these fencers

http://www.nwesignatures.com/photogallery/Fencer.jpg
http://blog.1pav.com/uploads/Image/fenc ... Fencer.jpg
http://casimirsdream.leetllama.com/uplo ... 799728.jpg
http://www.onlineathens.com/images/111799/fencer.jpg
http://fencersquarterly.com/b4.gif
http://www.svenskidrott.se/Downloads/49 ... argano.gif

Like the codpieces to btw

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Sgt. Groovy
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Re: Return of the fencer, part deux

Post by Sgt. Groovy »

Thanks, JAP, I was thinking nobody'll ever get what I'm getting at. I actually think that the first of your photos might be a good model for the fencer (with the obvious gear and hairdo modifications). A sitting pose would be an interesting change...

Here's yet another take, maybe better suited for the duelist (WIP obviously, I haven't yet decided on the hairdo/headpiece). A proud and upstanding young aristocrat this time, with spine to spare! :P
Attachments
duelistdeux2.png
Tiedäthän kuinka pelataan.
Tiedäthän, vihtahousua vastaan.
Tiedäthän, solmu kravatin, se kantaa niin synnit
kuin syntien tekijätkin.

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TL
Posts: 511
Joined: March 3rd, 2007, 3:02 am

Re: Return of the fencer, part deux

Post by TL »

Sweet! I think you knocked that one out of the park (the presumably unfinished head notwithstanding). Pose is maybe a little on the bland side but it carries the attitude very well.

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Sgt. Groovy
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Re: Return of the fencer, part deux

Post by Sgt. Groovy »

Thanks, I was again ripping off inspired by a renaissance artist, Il Bronzino this time.
Tiedäthän kuinka pelataan.
Tiedäthän, vihtahousua vastaan.
Tiedäthän, solmu kravatin, se kantaa niin synnit
kuin syntien tekijätkin.

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Thrawn
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Re: Return of the fencer, part deux

Post by Thrawn »

kaoron's pose is IMO the best for the fencer--it conveys the bored nature while still looking like he's actually prepared to fight, if he must

The duelist's pose is spot on, for an aristocrat that's full of himself, as a fencer that levels would ^_^

re: codpieces--I don't see why people are so immature bout them.. they're accurate
...please remember that "IT'S" ALWAYS MEANS "IT IS" and "ITS" IS WHAT YOU USE TO INDICATE POSSESSION BY "IT".--scott

this goes for they're/their/there as well

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zookeeper
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Re: Return of the fencer, part deux

Post by zookeeper »

Thrawn wrote:re: codpieces--I don't see why people are so immature bout them.. they're accurate
Yeah, me neither.

Since there is no requirement of historical accuracy in every detail, it's simply a choice of whether you want to draw half of the viewer's attention to the portraited guy's genitals or not. In the context of Wesnoth portraits and not historical illustrations, I don't think it's a good idea. But of course everyone has their tastes. :o

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