Return of the fencer, part deux

[kaoron]

May I suggest to fit the fencer's chest and arms in a box ? His right arm makes me think that there are some major perspective issues making the chest look as flat as paper.

And the right hand holds that dagger in a very uncomfortable way, IMHO the thumb should be repositioned.

Good job

[Eternal]

ups, sorry deserter!

Too many Finnish art contributors around, eh?

On the fencer itself: Nothing new really. Flat chest and weak-looking pose. Lift those shoulders and give a pose where his body and face are not aligned.

[Sgt. Groovy]

I see what you mean, Eternal, but the "weak" look is not an accident, the stiff, puffy "alpha male" look of your example is something I'm specifically trying to avoid. In the unit descriptions the fencer line is said to differ from others not only in fighting style but also in physical caracteristics. They are also nobles unlike the others, who are drafted from commoners, so they should have a sense on superiority, which should be expressed in their body language. They don't go around stomping and huffing and puffing like the grunts, they are metrosexuals and act the part.

Anyway, I found some inspiration for alterternative pose, so stay tuned.

[Sgt. Groovy]

Ok, yet another attempt (the shirt folds still pending). I'm not sure if he has now more spine, but I personally like the new head position and expression better (though I must confess I ripped it straight off from Caravaggio).

And before the complaints about the hand size starts, let me just say that I've measured everything and they are well within the bounds of anatomical possibilities, and I don't think small, delicate hands are in any way out of character for a noble youngster who's never seen any manual labour. But if some of you have well grounded reasons why the hands should be bigger, I'm all ears.

[kaoron]

As an exercise, I just tried to make your fencer's pose a bit more dynamic, keeping the "weak" attitude.
This is my result :

Hope you'll like it, I used this ref from the movie A Knight's Tale :


Kao

[Sgt. Groovy]

Not bad, but it might come out as bit sluggish. It would depend on the expression and position of the legs.

[TL]

"Sluggish" seems to be the dominant problem of your latest revision, in my opinion. His pose and expression just make him look weary rather than bored. If this was just an average upper-crust snob this would be perfectly fitting, but the character in question is a skilled athletic fighter; I can't imagine the guy in your last portrait springing into action and kicking ass. I think kaoron's sketch does a better job of suggesting that he has energy but just doesn't feel like using it.

[zookeeper]

I have only one request: please, please drop the codpieces. They're one of the most silly-looking pieces of attire ever invented, yet they feature very prominently on every single one of your fencers.

[Sgt. Groovy]

In few hundred years time somebody will be making a game set in the 20th century and the portrait artist will be drawing men wearing suits and neckties. Another developer will complain: "Will you please drop the neckties, they are the silliest piece of garment ever invented. I mean it's a huge arrow pointing right at your crotch! Who the hell ever wore those things with a straight face?"

[JAP]

Just wanted to say that i like the sketches,(the direction kaoron took it in really is interesting) and i really think Sargent Groovy is on to something regarding their posture and physik.
Just look at these fencers

http://www.nwesignatures.com/photogallery/Fencer.jpg
http://blog.1pav.com/uploads/Image/fenc ... Fencer.jpg
http://casimirsdream.leetllama.com/uplo ... 799728.jpg
http://www.onlineathens.com/images/111799/fencer.jpg
http://fencersquarterly.com/b4.gif
http://www.svenskidrott.se/Downloads/49 ... argano.gif

Like the codpieces to btw

[Sgt. Groovy]

Thanks, JAP, I was thinking nobody'll ever get what I'm getting at. I actually think that the first of your photos might be a good model for the fencer (with the obvious gear and hairdo modifications). A sitting pose would be an interesting change...

Here's yet another take, maybe better suited for the duelist (WIP obviously, I haven't yet decided on the hairdo/headpiece). A proud and upstanding young aristocrat this time, with spine to spare!

[TL]

Sweet! I think you knocked that one out of the park (the presumably unfinished head notwithstanding). Pose is maybe a little on the bland side but it carries the attitude very well.

[Sgt. Groovy]

Thanks, I was again ripping off inspired by a renaissance artist, Il Bronzino this time.

[Thrawn]

kaoron's pose is IMO the best for the fencer--it conveys the bored nature while still looking like he's actually prepared to fight, if he must

The duelist's pose is spot on, for an aristocrat that's full of himself, as a fencer that levels would

re: codpieces--I don't see why people are so immature bout them.. they're accurate

[zookeeper]

re: codpieces--I don't see why people are so immature bout them.. they're accurate

Yeah, me neither.

Since there is no requirement of historical accuracy in every detail, it's simply a choice of whether you want to draw half of the viewer's attention to the portraited guy's genitals or not. In the context of Wesnoth portraits and not historical illustrations, I don't think it's a good idea. But of course everyone has their tastes.