Standing and idle animations?

Website · Post by **Sapient** » September 11th, 2007, 8:28 pm

Query wrote:
Redeth wrote:My point is, if youÂ´re not willing to help make it any better, then shut it.
That isn't a very constructive attitude.

All of you should read this.. (tips for when/how to critique and tips for artists who have problems with critique)[/url]

Post by **Redeth** » September 12th, 2007, 1:54 am

Weeksy · Post by **Weeksy** » September 12th, 2007, 4:28 am

I'm not one to judge the art, but two things: Is this a standing animation or an idle (looks standing IMO, but I could be mistaken), and what is going on in the picture? I understand the flag ruffling, but how is it moving perfectly horizontal when the pole wobbles?

Post by **Jetrel** » September 12th, 2007, 5:07 am

Redeth wrote:blah

Eh, it's a beginning. A beginning of something that could turn out quite cool.

September 12th, 2007, 8:01 am

The flagwaving animation is pretty much flawless as far as i can see, but i'm not quite sure why the pole's wobbling. It makes the flag look very heavy. it also looks slightly add that that's the only thing moving when his body is not, particularly given the above, but i guess that that will be sorted in due course. As Jetryl said, it's a nice beginning.

Post by **Iris** » September 12th, 2007, 12:07 pm

Jetryl wrote:
Redeth wrote:blah
Eh, it's a beginning. A beginning of something that could turn out quite cool.

Although it's a really cool animation, and I see no problems except the pole seems to move with the wind too, I don't really think it fits in the game.

Standing (not idle) animations, besides, seem to be now discouraged only there is a really good reason behind (i.e. goblin pillager's torch).

Vendanna · Post by **Vendanna** » September 12th, 2007, 1:30 pm

If the standing animation car surpass the hex limit you can make a invisible standing animation or similar and then have some unit rather big as standing one, so that dragon someone was doing that resulted too big could actually be inside the game

I think also that the pole moving with the flag is affecting too much, the wind would be rather strong to get that effect on the unit, and also the base doesn't move with it, and that makes the "visual effect" more patent on the anim.

Not a bad first try and rather cool, keep working and you could finish what you have started since its looking veru good.

Post by **turin** » September 12th, 2007, 4:33 pm

Since no one has said it yet, I will: The pole moving that much looks out of place when the unit itself is moving not at all. It would be REALLY hard to keep that pose for as long as he is without moving, and it's not like he would try anyways. And his hair, clothes, etc, would be ruffling anyway.

Also, in general, I'd say that Wesnoth units' poses are often simply not poses that the units could be expected to sustain for more than a few seconds at a time. This means that standing animations showing them swaying slightly, clothes ruffling, flags moving, etc, while they hold that position, make little sense. So IMO we either have to move completely away from that style of posing units - which will really make our units look more boring, and less distinguishable - or not plan on having standing animations for units.

Having standing animations would I think break immersion, actually, because right now you can just pretend that the sprite is a photo of the unit that we're using as a marker*, but as soon as it is moving slightly you have to assume you're looking at the actual unit and then his being posed that way makes very little sense...

Anyway, just my 2c before we start making standing animations like Redeth's for a bunch of units.

*: Or, better yet, the way we currently have it the units are like pieces in Wizard's Chess from Harry Potter. Much as I don't like HP, that was a cool idea. The units are frozen in place, but once you give them an order they come to life to complete it. That's how Wesnoth pieces should appear, IMO.

Post by **torangan** » September 12th, 2007, 5:33 pm

Vendanna wrote:If the standing animation car surpass the hex limit you can make a invisible standing animation or similar and then have some unit rather big as standing one, so that dragon someone was doing that resulted too big could actually be inside the game

The standing animation is the only animation confined to the hex. And to take out the common misunderstanding: there is no longer a standing frame. The base frame is a standing animation with only 1 frame.

Vendanna · Post by **Vendanna** » September 12th, 2007, 5:49 pm

torangan wrote:The standing animation is the only animation confined to the hex. And to take out the common misunderstanding: there is no longer a standing frame. The base frame is a standing animation with only 1 frame.

An what stops it then from using a IDLE animation being played continously (since that one can surpass the hex)? and seem that its possible to select different "chances to play" to each animation (because on the discussion some animations should be rarer than the rest) and having an unit being constantly out of the hex?

(well, the fight would look funny).

Post by **Iris** » September 12th, 2007, 5:56 pm

Vendanna wrote:
torangan wrote:The standing animation is the only animation confined to the hex. And to take out the common misunderstanding: there is no longer a standing frame. The base frame is a standing animation with only 1 frame.
An what stops it then from using a IDLE animation being played continously (since that one can surpass the hex)? and seem that its possible to select different "chances to play" to each animation (because on the discussion some animations should be rarer than the rest) and having an unit being constantly out of the hex?

(well, the fight would look funny).

Because idle animation is hard-coded not to loop immediately. And in SVN, it is now done in such way it won't happen when an enemy unit is adjacent.

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » September 12th, 2007, 6:49 pm

This animation could work. The banner and the cloak moves nothing more.
In a separate idle animation which is rarer he would move the whole body.

Post by **irrevenant** » September 12th, 2007, 9:06 pm

Shadow Master wrote:Although it's a really cool animation, and I see no problems except the pole seems to move with the wind too, I don't really think it fits in the game. Standing (not idle) animations, besides, seem to be now discouraged only there is a really good reason behind (i.e. goblin pillager's torch).

IMO flags fall into the same category as flames - they look unnatural completely stationary.

P.S. I agree that the pole should be stationary. Conceivably it could sway in the wind, but it's distracting that way.

Post by **Jetrel** » September 13th, 2007, 4:50 am

Shadow Master wrote:Standing (not idle) animations, besides, seem to be now discouraged only there is a really good reason behind (i.e. goblin pillager's torch).

Wrong. If someone does a good job, I'd love to have the animations in.

It is a large amount of work, and it would look odd to have some units animated and others not. But this is absolutely not a reason to discourage people from making them - we can deal with this in a variety of ways - in a worst-case scenario, we could just set standing animations to be off by default, and have an advanced preference to turn them on.

Personally, I think this fear of the game looking disjointed is a little bit of a straw man; there is something to it, but I don't think it's as disastrous as some would make it out to be, and since making standing animations is fairly easy, a development version that looks obviously unfinished in that regard would be a great way to compel new people to help out.

irrevenant wrote:IMO flags fall into the same category as flames - they look unnatural completely stationary.

Yes.

Post by **Redeth** » September 13th, 2007, 10:11 pm

blah?