Forgotten Legacy - Unfinished (5 Scenarios Ready)

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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lynx rufus
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Assassins and turn length

Post by lynx rufus » January 10th, 2006, 3:54 pm

hey db0,

I will run the campaign again and keep track of gp and turns.

Btw, I was able to recruit assassins in the third, but no recall.

Yes the unnamed units are the saurians that appear in the beginning of the second scenario.

Also, as the initial orc scouts move into the ambush, they have red rings until the ambush is over and they revert to the blue of their team. A bug or is that so they can temporarily move first?

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db0
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Re: Assassins and turn length

Post by db0 » January 10th, 2006, 4:18 pm

I would suggest you wait a bit before you run it again. I'm making some heavy revisions and will upload them soon. I pillaged RotL for stuff and am implementing them right now.

I fixed the unnamed units (forgot a underscore) and the scouts must be for the fake unit, dunno, will check it out.

I may have fixed the assasin recruit in the third but will need to test it first.

l'ultimo cruco
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Re: Third Scenario - No Bugs

Post by l'ultimo cruco » January 10th, 2006, 11:19 pm

db0 wrote:
Maybe a end dialog between the temporary orcish ally and the saurians at the end of the 2nd scenario would help to keep the atmosphere...
You mean after the orc dies? Well, maybe. I just don't see it that everyone has something to say as he dies. Some just die ;)
No, I mean the orcish assasins you have hired to slaugther the "enemy"orcs. Don't know, something like "Thanks for your help, but don't try to bother us in the future,..." or "we might meet again, lizard"
db0 wrote:
In the third scenario you are still able to recruit orcish assasins which I suppose this is not intended.
Recruit or recall? You shouldn't be able to recruit (and I tried to prevent recall but must have missed something). Hmmm, it seems I'll have to play it again to see any possible bugs.
No, you can't recall, but you can recruit. At least, I could.
db0 wrote: I'd still like to balance out the turns to avoid extra money. If you all can give me the number of turns you finished the scenarios it'd be great.
on normal:
OotS turn 14
UA turn 12
BS turn 23

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db0
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Post by db0 » January 11th, 2006, 1:06 am

Alright. Many many many changes. Too many to list but I think you'll like what you see.
Most important is that I've fixed the maps to make them a little more tactical.
Still only three scenarios but mucho updated.

Many of these wouldn't be possible without the RotL campaign which I've shamelessly pillaged for macros and ideas ;) (Seriously, check it out if you haven't already)
Zookeeper you rule 8)

Anyway, I'm reaching my attachment limit so from now on, the latest version of the campaign will always be on the first post. Here's a direct link just because I'm in a good mood

http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/download.php?id=6374

Comments welcome as always (keep turn tally awayt?)

Cheers!

EDIT: Oh, btw, I've fixed most of everything mentioned 'till now.

lynx rufus
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Post by lynx rufus » January 11th, 2006, 5:14 am

I giving it a try on Normal... usually play easy, but...

Scenario 1: 11/16 w 136 gp
Scenario 2: 16/18 w 178 gp
Scenario 3: three losses in a row :shock:

So, you have reduced money as a excessive surplus but I sure could have used a few extra gp in the third. will try again later.

I really like the new look... the maps are great and the story line is strong.

Btw, some conifers, e.g. cedar and spruce, like swampy areas so you can keep a few of the "pine" forests as opposed to "palm" forests.

Mustelid
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Post by Mustelid » January 11th, 2006, 12:59 pm

Yeah, the third scenario seems to be a significant jump up in difficulty. Part of it is that there's not an obvious opponent to head for first. The maniac leader seems like an obviously bad choice, though.

Attempt 1: Hey, maybe the allies have got tiny castles for a reason. I'll take you all on at once! Rar! ...oh.

Attempt 2: Okay, that's clearly not going to work. This time I'll send my leader and main army west to quickly take out the opponent there, by which time I'll have built up enough cash for reinforcements. In the meantime I'll keep a hold on my eastern villages, and slow the other enemies down a bit, with three or four Skirmishers. That's what Skirmishers are for, right? Skirmishing?

Didn't work. Saurians are slow in forests but also have good defence, so a quick rush isn't going to work there. I don't have enough time or cash to recuperate and heal my injured units before the Maniacs catch up and wreak devastation. My distraction-skirmishers did a reasonable job, but there's no way they're going to tie up enough units for long enough.

Attempt 3: Let's try heading south; looks like a quicker route, and probably more defensible from the flank.
This initially works a lot better. The southeastern leader goes down pretty quickly and I set up a line in the mountains; even so, quite a few of my units are injured or poisoned, and I can't bring my full force to bear. Then four Hunters and four Maniacs hit the line, and it falls apart.

I wouldn't have tried to defend something as far forwards as the line of eastern mountains - I'd have preferred to hang about on the peninsula, healing, and let the enemy come to me. Shallow water or grassland against sand. But I was feeling the time limit; I've still got two, maybe three leaders to clear up, and it's well past turn 10.

Maniacs are very hard to deal with. Lots of hitpoints, nasty attacks, +10% vs. pierce. Powerful second-level unit, particularly compared to Ambushers. Vulnerable to ranged, but the only unit I have that can deal serious ranged damage is an Alchemist. I guess I need to go back and focus on levelling up more Alchemists? My (lvl2) leader can also hurt them pretty badly, but he gets as much as he dishes out.

A possible suggestion would be to lower the defence% of Maniacs on the higher-defence terrains. If they're insane battle-frenzy troops, they're probably not so interested in defending themselves. They'd still be effective as a shock-troop, but it'd be a little easier to retaliate against them. Presumably the player's going to get to use Maniacs later on, and I dread to think how powerful they'd be in the hands of a player who (unlike the AI) knows how to use its special attacks effectively.

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Post by db0 » January 11th, 2006, 2:25 pm

Thanks for the feedback Mustelid. Very well thought out.

I've played the scenario two more times after reducing the gold the three henchmen have a bit to give a small breathing space. I entered the scenario with ~200 gold. How much did you have?

Just a reminder. You don't need to kill all three leaders AND Ikmass. Either the three henchmen OR Ikmass will win the scenario.

(Mild spoiler - Don't read if you want to find the right tactics yourself - hightlight to see clearly)


The easiest target is actually the Maniac. His units cost more and he can't get as many out. If you attack them with poison from Soothsayers or Acid Bolts from Alchemist, a Headhunter or your leader should be able to finish them off.
The easiest plan I follow when I play this scenario is to recruit and recall as many as I can within 2 turns and then take my whole army and attack the Maniac. He goes down and then I use his keep to recruit with the money I saved by getting there (That's why I made the middle keep bigger). Most of the villages are in the center anyway so heading there gives you more money compared to west or south.
Then I head immediately to Ikmass with all my force.
Until the two other henchmen change course to intercept, Ikmass is dead and the scenario is won.
I managed to take him down within 13 turns that way.

The other scenario is to head for the three henchmen together. The left is weaker so needs a significantly lower force but the right and middle will need higher level units. I did manage to win this way within 22 turns.

I will however admit that I am guilty from saveloading but only when my critical units are killed though (for example I had the advantage in the middle and then the maniacs got lucky and killed the bloodborn, so I load)


The problem in this case is that it seems that killing the henchmen takes longer than killing Ikmass so I need to give some incentive to go that way if you want.
So I'm thinking of making Ikmass tougher or having each henchman drop an small articaft as he dies which I think would be a better option. That way, if you kill Ikmass you have more money for the next scenario while if you kill all three henchmen you have some nice boosted units. Another option is to have the west and south henchman drop a small gold cache when they die to help you move to the next one.

Thanks for the suggestion about Maniacs. I will probably implement something like that because they are supposed to be all about offense and not defense.

EDIT: Added the money boost after defeating the left and right henchman. Check it out and tell me how difficult it is now. I, with no saveload took it out at 22 turns and had 400 gold for the next scenario (need to figure what to do with that)

Mustelid
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Post by Mustelid » January 11th, 2006, 4:19 pm

I was playing on Normal, with 173 gold, S'Saskin and Iktha both level 2, two Ambushers and an Alchemist. I really should have had more levels than this, but I foolishly levelled an Orc Assassin on the previous map, and lost quite a few about-to-level troops. I've only just got to the point where Easy is too easy, so I'm still adjusting to Normal somewhat.

Aha. From the objective description I suspected that I might have to deal with the three henchmen and then Ikmass; it might be nice to have an 'or' in between the two objectives for dumbasses like myself.

Thanks. I sort of assumed that if I went for the centre I'd be immediately ganged up on from all sides, so I ruled the possibility out.

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db0
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Post by db0 » January 11th, 2006, 5:27 pm

You should really level someone to headhunter. They're very good againt maniacs.

lynx rufus
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Where is the new save?

Post by lynx rufus » January 11th, 2006, 5:43 pm

Howdy,

went to the first post and downoaded the campaign and when I went ot start I received two error messages.

Where should I have gone for the new post? the link you posted about five comments ago?

lynx rufus
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More information

Post by lynx rufus » January 11th, 2006, 5:58 pm

I tried the link above as well and here is what I got:

ERROR DETAILS:
Missing closing tag for tag attack at /Users/********//Library/Preferences/Wesnoth/data/campaigns/Forgotten_Legacy/units/Saurian_flanker.cfg included from /Users/********//Library/Preferences/Wesnoth/data/campaigns//Forgotten_Legacy.cfg:31 at /Users/********//Library/Preferences/Wesnoth/data/campaigns//Forgotten_Legacy.cfg:43

followed by:

Unknown scenario: 'Out_Of_The_Swamps'

This is very similar to the message I receieved from goping to the first dowload but that one resulted in the second error message (i.e. the first was the long text detailing my directories) saying that the Alchemist could not be found.

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db0
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Post by db0 » January 11th, 2006, 6:45 pm

Fixed it. You can either download the campaign again, or put this file in your Forgotten_Legacy/scenarios/ folder


whatever's easier
Last edited by db0 on January 29th, 2008, 11:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mustelid
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Post by Mustelid » January 11th, 2006, 8:34 pm

A point about bridges. Wesnoth assumes that all bridges are over water; FL has a lot of bridges through swampland, and this does a couple of things:

a) Bridges are treated as either grassland or water, depending on which gives the higher defence %. The assumption is that a unit on a bridge hex can either be under the bridge or standing on it. However, when a bridge only goes through swamp, one would imagine that there'd be swamp underneath it.

For gameplay purposes it's fine - the vulnerability of saurians on bridges is a nice tactical challenge at several points. But it does kind of screw with the rationale.

b) The bridge graphic looks as if it has clear blue water under it, which looks odd when it's surrounded by swamp; this is particularly striking with the new swamp graphics, which are a lot darker.

This obviously isn't an issue specific to this campaign, but it's particularly prominent here.

l'ultimo cruco
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Post by l'ultimo cruco » January 12th, 2006, 8:41 am

Mustelid wrote:A point about bridges. Wesnoth assumes that all bridges are over water; FL has a lot of bridges through swampland, and this does a couple of things:
...
The assumption is that a unit on a bridge hex can either be under the bridge or standing on it. However, when a bridge only goes through swamp, one would imagine that there'd be swamp underneath it.

For gameplay purposes it's fine - the vulnerability of saurians on bridges is a nice tactical challenge at several points. But it does kind of screw with the rationale.
...
One can assume that bridges through swamps are more like very low walkways just above water/swamp level - there aren't very much waves in the swamp normally; so I wouldn't care to bother about.
Just my 2 cents

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Post by db0 » January 14th, 2006, 5:18 am

Btw, the campaign is now on the campaing server as well. I've updated some units artwork. Still no new scenarios yet.

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