New Campaign: Return of the Legions (0.2.5)

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zookeeper
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Re: Bow problem

Post by zookeeper » January 10th, 2006, 11:11 am

lynx rufus wrote:The problem I had was that I tried picking it up with the leader and then when I went ot get it with another unit (an archer), although the image was still there I could not pick up the bow.

Useful weapon for Ranger/Avenger but I am assuming that the 70% would be useless with a markself/sharpshooter as they already shoot at 70%.
Ok, there could be a bug with my item code. If there is, I'll have it repaired for the next version.

Note also that marksman/sharpshooter has "marksman" on his bow attack, not "magical". Marksman gives him 60% to hit, but only when attacking. Magical gives 70% to hit, always. Also, the archer line has the best bow attack damage-wise, so combine that with fire and you got a real undead killer. :)
lynx rufus wrote:Does the rain need to last all of the turns? Sort of monsoon like. Also, could the rain reduce visibility or rather, could it turn daylight into dusk/dawn and dawn/dusk into night? :twisted:
I could make the rain last only a certain number of turns, for example, but I didn't want it to affect the time of day bonuses, simply for simplicity's sake. It was really more of an experimentation on what people think of such an effect and how it affects the "mood" of the scenario.
db0 wrote:I played the first 5 or so scenarios and I'm genuinely impressed. Seriously, I'm left feeling rather dwarfed by the quality of your campaign (compared to mine that is) and a refreshing change from most of what I've played so far.
It would seem we have the same approach to storyline.
Thanks! I haven't been really working on the campaign since the first release (just a few maps, a few bugs), but since several people have said they really like it, I suppose that's a good enough reason to get to it again. The next release will probably have 3-5 new scenarios and might take a month, two or more to pull together.

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Re: Bow problem

Post by db0 » January 10th, 2006, 12:35 pm

zookeeper wrote: Thanks! I haven't been really working on the campaign since the first release (just a few maps, a few bugs), but since several people have said they really like it, I suppose that's a good enough reason to get to it again. The next release will probably have 3-5 new scenarios and might take a month, two or more to pull together.
And there's the reason for the difference in quality. It usually takeds me 2-3 days per scenario. You take weeks. Ugh

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Fire Bow

Post by lynx rufus » January 10th, 2006, 3:42 pm

With regards to the fire bow vs sharpshooter... of course! I had forgotten:
"that marksman/sharpshooter has "marksman" on his bow attack, not "magical". Marksman gives him 60% to hit, but only when attacking. Magical gives 70% to hit, always. Also, the archer line has the best bow attack damage-wise, so combine that with fire and you got a real undead killer."
And the rain/lightening/thunder is great... it does create a mood... the tension increases (for me at least) slightly.

I will happily wait for the rest of the campaign, even if it is months. db0 has an excellent saurian revision and there is RangerM's Arendia to keep me occupied in the meantime.

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Eleazar
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Post by Eleazar » January 10th, 2006, 5:18 pm

I think RotL has a lot of promise, especially for a .1 release.
The fact that you get to choose who accompanies you is fun, as well as picking up magic weapons.

My only significant complaint is the battle in the rain, while atmospheric, was not especially fun, because i didn't have much control over what was happening. I didn't have much money, so my 2 elvish allies did most of the fighting. Watching the computer fight the computer isn't super fun, especially when a special effect slows everything down. The rain effect is cool, but perhaps it could be used on smaller map?
Feel free to PM me if you start a new terrain oriented thread. It's easy for me to miss them among all the other art threads.
-> What i might be working on
Attempting Lucidity

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db0
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Post by db0 » January 11th, 2006, 1:10 am

Hey man (zookeeper that is), your campaign has been a tremendous source of inspiration for me. Just to let you know.

So...err..thanks and keep it up ;)

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Post by Mustelid » January 14th, 2006, 12:34 am

I've been playing around with getting the optimal strategy for The Road Back. Here's the approaches I've considered so far:

1) Take the entire force down to the bridge. If I waited for the whole force, this meant that I met the orcs at the 4-hex forest a little before the bridge; could have advanced further, but that would have meant facing them in the open at night.

Unfortunately, the 4 hexes of forest are fiendishly set back from the riverbank, so I had to choose between the safety of the forest and attacking the orcs in the water. There's a kink in the river, which makes a line even harder; in any case I always found myself hopelessly encircled by Wolf Riders, which made life hazardous for everyone who couldn't fit into the tiny woods, and made the nearby villages too hazardous as heal-points. It's a fiendish little patch of territory; I congratulate you, sir. I won once this way, but on the final turn and having lost too many units.


1a). Send the fastest units to hold the bridge and gank the magic mace (probably mopping up a wolf rider on the way), while the rest of the force holes up in aforementioned 4-hex wood. Went better at the start. Orcs seemed a lot less eager to attack. Then I had to somehow force my way across the bridge. That proved slow and painful, and when I'd done myself enough damage the Wolf Riders descended...

2) Split army into two; take one lot down towards the bridge and have the other, including Rashdin, cross the river at its westmost point to trigger the reinforcements as early as possible. This did very badly; the orcs sensibly ignored Rashdin's party and obliterated the other group.

3) Entire army fords river at westmost point; send Rashdin south to trigger reinforcements as soon as possible, send main force to fight eastwards through the abundant safe terrain. Leave one Scout to pick up villages on the northern side, tying up a lot of Wolf Riders.

This would have been the ideal solution, except that I timed the reinforcements wrong; they're stupidly aggressive, and their blitzkreig doesn't work too well at night. Rashdin ended up getting himself poisoned and putting himself on a grassland hex, adjacent to a full-hp grunt on hills, at night. I tried to protect him, I really did, but the guy is Darwin Award material.

The design on the second and third maps is really good, I think. They give you defensive choices without making any of them overwhelmingly superior. The first scenario is kind of boring, though: march straight forwards through desert, march over pitiful enemies, PLOT TWIST FORESHADOWING, the end. It's more fun the first time, when you don't know if you might be ambushed at any moment, but then it's kind of anticlimactic. Which I guess is the point, but it still makes for a sub-par scenario.

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Post by db0 » January 14th, 2006, 5:16 am

yeah, unfortunately the first scenario (and the wizards artwork) make the plot twist kind of obvious.

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Post by XJaPaN » January 14th, 2006, 12:33 pm

Just tried this campaign and I have to say that I really like the music especially the one in the first scenario ;)

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zookeeper
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Post by zookeeper » January 17th, 2006, 11:20 am

Eleazar wrote:My only significant complaint is the battle in the rain, while atmospheric, was not especially fun, because i didn't have much control over what was happening. I didn't have much money, so my 2 elvish allies did most of the fighting. Watching the computer fight the computer isn't super fun, especially when a special effect slows everything down. The rain effect is cool, but perhaps it could be used on smaller map?
Actually, I've found that scenario to be somewhat boring myself. That'll probably get heavily revised in many ways.
Mustelid wrote:I've been playing around with getting the optimal strategy for The Road Back. Here's the approaches I've considered so far:
My own usual approach has been to take the units I start with straight over the river, with Rashdin and a HI going along the west border and the rest fording the river at just south of the castle. I recruit one scout to take the north villages, and a mix of archers and fighters, who head for the bridge. The first fight will usually be on reasonably good terrain with the ones who forded the river against a few wolf riders, not too hard. In the east, I basically always fight the first wave not at the bridge, but at the forest next to it (and between the forest and the canyon). I fight the second wave at the bridge, but rarely have time to both get the mace and get the unit who took it into a fight. Rashdin reaches the road fairly soon, with max 1 wolf rider in the way, and the reinforcements clear the way to the leader in a few turns. Too bad they get a lot of the kills this way, though.
Mustelid wrote:Unfortunately, the 4 hexes of forest are fiendishly set back from the riverbank, so I had to choose between the safety of the forest and attacking the orcs in the water. There's a kink in the river, which makes a line even harder; in any case I always found myself hopelessly encircled by Wolf Riders, which made life hazardous for everyone who couldn't fit into the tiny woods, and made the nearby villages too hazardous as heal-points. It's a fiendish little patch of territory; I congratulate you, sir. I won once this way, but on the final turn and having lost too many units.
Glad to hear that it's that fiendish. :wink:
Mustelid wrote:3) Entire army fords river at westmost point; send Rashdin south to trigger reinforcements as soon as possible, send main force to fight eastwards through the abundant safe terrain. Leave one Scout to pick up villages on the northern side, tying up a lot of Wolf Riders.

This would have been the ideal solution, except that I timed the reinforcements wrong; they're stupidly aggressive, and their blitzkreig doesn't work too well at night. Rashdin ended up getting himself poisoned and putting himself on a grassland hex, adjacent to a full-hp grunt on hills, at night. I tried to protect him, I really did, but the guy is Darwin Award material.
I agree, at least Rashdin's aggressiveness should be toned down, losing just because the AI wants to kamikaze is very bad.
Mustelid wrote:The design on the second and third maps is really good, I think. They give you defensive choices without making any of them overwhelmingly superior. The first scenario is kind of boring, though: march straight forwards through desert, march over pitiful enemies, PLOT TWIST FORESHADOWING, the end. It's more fun the first time, when you don't know if you might be ambushed at any moment, but then it's kind of anticlimactic. Which I guess is the point, but it still makes for a sub-par scenario.
Since quite a lot of people have commented on this obvious part of the plot, I'm actually thinking of doing adjustments both to this and to the backstory in general.

PS. One new scenario ready (not playtested, though)! I'll probably release the next version when there's 1-2 more and some of the aforementioned problems are solved. Thanks for the feedback, everyone!

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santi
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Post by santi » February 17th, 2006, 5:46 pm

I must say I liked the campaign thus far, at least
Some comments:
1) although the music is great, please consider creating a version using GNU(i.e. standard wesnoth) music, so you can upload to the server
2) the plot is nice, though you can see from the very first scenario that Rashdin will be the bad guy. Actually you can tell frm his picture!
3) I liked especially the big battle in return of the legions. Unlike Eleazar I was dfoing most of the fighting
4) you probably need to head in the right direction to beat the swamp battle in time, so a hint might be in order there
5) Finally, where did you get the artists who drew these wonderful fugures for you? I'd love to get them to draw for me too!

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Post by zookeeper » February 17th, 2006, 8:31 pm

santi wrote:1) although the music is great, please consider creating a version using GNU(i.e. standard wesnoth) music, so you can upload to the server
I'm really in no hurry in getting the campaign to the server, when it's nowhere near finished. I think I'll get it up there either when it's more complete or when the new music tracks are finished and added to the game.
santi wrote:2) the plot is nice, though you can see from the very first scenario that Rashdin will be the bad guy. Actually you can tell frm his picture!
I'm trying to remedy that a bit. A better portrait for him would be a good first step, although I'm currently also revising the first scenario. I'm just a bit stuck and running out of ideas.
santi wrote:3) I liked especially the big battle in return of the legions. Unlike Eleazar I was dfoing most of the fighting
I think I'll either remove the scenario completely or replace it with something "smaller". Not sure yet which.
santi wrote:4) you probably need to head in the right direction to beat the swamp battle in time, so a hint might be in order there
There will be a hint to head southeast in the next version. I hope that'll be enough.
santi wrote:5) Finally, where did you get the artists who drew these wonderful fugures for you? I'd love to get them to draw for me too!
You mean the portraits? I've cut & pasted, combined and recolored portraits from at least Elf War, TDH, Liberty, UTBS, Saving Elensefar and of course mainline. So there's really not much original stuff there, but I'm glad it has at least fooled someone. :D

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Post by santi » February 18th, 2006, 12:10 pm

Ok, thanks. Regarding The battle at the outskirts of the elvish forest, do not change it, just rename it and save the name ROTL for a later bigger battle

Keep up the good work!

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Great Scenario

Post by spun » March 30th, 2006, 7:30 am

Very interesting storyline. The maps were both visually and tactically interesting. Nice dialogue, polished language (with only a few minor spelling errors) and well done special effects. Very pretty custom trees in the swamp, very nice rain effect. Loved the book flipping effect on the intros.

Regarding strategies discussed here for "The Road Back" and "The Mouldering Barrow," I have found that in the first case, recruiting a few scouts to steal villages across the river works well to keep the wolf riders distracted. They will zip across the bridge, then retreat, allowing you to take the bridge while your rear guard sits in the forest. I gave the mace to a quick archer. The scouts can hit them from the other side as you take the opposite bank.

As for "The Mouldering Barrow," I too found myself not using scouts and failing in my push through the middle of the swamp. Then I tried the northern route and again hit too much resistance to find my objective in time. In desperation, I hired nothing but scouts and sent them off on suicide missions. I restarted and tried the southern route with a bunch of disposables, a druid, and a few units I wanted to level. I made it through with only a few losses and a new captain in 15 turns on easy.

Anyways, great work on the campaign and I hope to see more!

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Post by zookeeper » May 25th, 2006, 4:27 pm

Status report for those interested: I've been rather busy with other Wesnoth stuff (sounds, animations, etc) so working on the campaign has been really slow for a while again. However, with great help from SmokemJags we've been able to sketch the storyline of the campaign pretty much to the end, so now I'm not stuck on the plot anymore. Progress should therefore be reasonably fast once I get time to work on this again.

I know I've had erratic predictions about when the next updated release is ready (I probably first predicted one to be out before this year...), but I suppose there's a reasonably good chance of getting an updated RotL for Wesnoth 1.1.3 (or 1.2) in the near future (at least weeks still, but probably not months).

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Post by zookeeper » September 21st, 2006, 12:53 pm

It's here!

0.2 that is. Get it from the campaign server. :D First post updated with all the rest of the info.

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