New Campaign: Return of the Legions (0.2.5)

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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Ewan
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Post by Ewan » September 23rd, 2006, 1:27 pm

zookeeper wrote: I assume you lost quite a few units though (not just cannon fodder) doing that? I guess I should clarify it a bit in the dialogue that there's no need to actually fight the undead, just screen one rider to safety. However, doing just this is ridiculously easy currently, so I should rebalance the scenario somehow.
I think it could maybe be a *little* clearer - and I wasn't sure whether Jolie would just flee (as he did), nor how important the optional victory conditions were; none of this is complaint, though, as i didn't feel too abused.

If you want to add clarity, possibly a note that 'we have too little gold to raise a fighting force now, and this ground is full of fresh corpses for the enemy - better to fight at another time and place of our choosing' or some such?

On gold, btw, it's low in this campaign - that's fine; but it has the odd consequence that (in theory, at least; I don't know whether this is in fact the result) once gold is negative, it's better to go on for as long as possible and hence avoid carrying forward any percentage of that deficit!

Oh - and, yes, fighting cost me two of my best units, and almost the flame-bow carrier. [That would have annoyed; although maybe on death, the bow could be available for someone else to use??] Plus several level-one red-shirt troops, before I got the message :).
zookeeper wrote:Good that you reminded me about the belt though, I still haven't done and added any item graphics for it.
That was an oddity - I had to avoid winning too fast in order to be able to explore the unlikely tentacle, but it turned out extremely worthwhile; that's a *hugely* powerful item, I think. Gave it to what is now an Outrider, which produces a long-range assassin of any enemy mage type.

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zookeeper
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Post by zookeeper » September 23rd, 2006, 2:31 pm

Ewan wrote:On gold, btw, it's low in this campaign - that's fine; but it has the odd consequence that (in theory, at least; I don't know whether this is in fact the result) once gold is negative, it's better to go on for as long as possible and hence avoid carrying forward any percentage of that deficit!
Yikes, I didn't think of the possibility of having negative gold. Obviously in that case the starting gold of the next scenario should not be reduced one bit and I think it would be now. Good catch, I'll be sure to fix that. :) Upcoming scenarios should have somewhat more gold, although I'm not a big fan of massive fights (since they tend to become a bit bland and boring).

lu_zero
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Post by lu_zero » September 23rd, 2006, 9:47 pm

as is now I think is one of the best campaign so far.

kilder
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Post by kilder » September 24th, 2006, 4:55 pm

Here they are


.zip because of forum limitations, they aren't compressed in any way. I'll try to delete the attachments soon.


I'm running on MacOsX 10.3.9, maybe there's the problem? However, I doubt it...

Hope it helps!
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zookeeper
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Post by zookeeper » September 24th, 2006, 5:57 pm

kilder wrote:Here they are
Well...everything seems to be like it should. The sword option makes a difference (extra point of damage), and that difference is visible when loading the after-AMLA save, too.

BTW, all three AMLA options enable a "second level" upgrade. So if you choose the first sword upgrade for example, on the next AMLA you get a new upgrade to it available. I think these need to be balanced a bit more, since the sword AMLAs seem pretty inferior to me. I'll also try to figure out a way to tell the player that leveling her up is useful, since now it looks like all she can do is AMLA, and the player obviously doesn't know that these AMLAs are useful and not just the usual +3hp.

kilder
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Post by kilder » September 25th, 2006, 8:35 pm

:shock:

I can assure you it doesn't change in my computer :/


Anyway, what I'll try is to re-download it, uninstall all the other add-ons and downloads and replay until I amla him.


I'll post my results soon, I hope.


Sorry for the time lost!


EDIT: I've done all the above and it stills doesn't have any effect when i choose the sword or bow upgrade, only the magic fireball one. I'm totally clueless :(
Last edited by kilder on September 25th, 2006, 9:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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zookeeper
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Post by zookeeper » September 25th, 2006, 9:22 pm

kilder wrote::shock:

I can assure you it doesn't change in my computer :/
Quite frankly, I have trouble believing it would be as you say...just to make sure though: please take a screenshot of her stats (of the right side panel) before and after AMLA'ing.

kilder
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Post by kilder » September 25th, 2006, 9:45 pm

here it is:

compared screenie

I play in catalan, but the numbers are still visible
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zookeeper
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Post by zookeeper » September 25th, 2006, 10:10 pm

Right. A translation issue, I'm 99% sure. Thanks, should be fixable. :)

EDIT: Just to clarify: this is a bug in the game engine.

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zookeeper
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Post by zookeeper » September 25th, 2006, 10:49 pm

I uploaded a fixed version, so the AMLAs should now work even with translations. Of course, to get the benefit you'll have to restart the campaign from the beginning.

defsy
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crash of 0.2.4 with 1.1.10 on Mac OS X

Post by defsy » September 26th, 2006, 2:32 pm

tsr wrote:At least using 1.1.9 on linux it's kinda broken, I get the following error:

Code: Select all

error display: could not open image ''
wesnoth: sdl_utils.cpp:138: surface scale_surface(const surface&, int, int): F?rs?kran "w != 0" falsk.
Avbruten (SIGABRT)
[...]
Perhaps this is fixed in 1.1.10, we'll see tonight (after compilation)

/tsr
With version 1.1.10 on Mac OS X (RotL 0.2.4) I get basically the same:

Code: Select all

....
info display: scrolling to speaker..
/Users/src/jeux/wesnoth-1.1.10/MacCompileStuff/../src/sdl_utils.cpp:138: failed assertion `w != 0'
Abort trap
then it's crashed and gone.

defsy

P.S.: From what I've seen so far it look _very_ nice!
Life creates order, but order does not create life. --- What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well.
- both: Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
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Glowing Fish
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Saurianaphobia!

Post by Glowing Fish » September 26th, 2006, 10:49 pm

I am afraid of Saurians!
Yes, I know that they have low HP.
But, if there are so many of them, you can only kill one a turn.
And they have good defense, and you have the Augurs with magical attacks, and scorpions with poison. And FOG! FOG! FOG!
I would like some tanks to absorb their attacks...but there are really no tank like units available.
So that scenario is the one I am having the hardest time with!
Don't go to Glowing Fish for advice, he will say both yes and no.

Rhuvaen
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Post by Rhuvaen » September 27th, 2006, 3:58 pm

I like the story, maps and gameplay a lot (and the special effects :)).

I've played this on medium, and found it just slightly too easy.

In The Road Back, I was surprised that only an archer could take the fire bow. When I moved Nelayin onto the bow he lost all remaining moves, but couldn't pick it up (whereas archers who pick it up can continue moving). That was mildly irritating. It took me one attempt to realise that the easiest way to win this scenario is to send a scout directly south across the river, take a village there, and then teleport the mage in. Perhaps those villages near the end of the road are just a little too convenient?

Journey to the Barrow could use a few level 2 opponents, I think. It was pretty much a cakewalk (I did start with over 200 gold).

The Mouldering Barrow actually saw me holed up with a smaller force during the first half of the scenario, just hugging the forest and waiting for the waves of saurians to fall over. It would be nice if the saurian attack was triggered by exploration - in addition to maybe some randomness in where the sorcerer is. It was very hard to get any bonus here at all, but it didn't seem to matter for the following scenarios.

I had to play The Revelation a couple of times because I was trying to get some xp for Nelayin out of it - which I messed up initially. :wink:

The escape is fun enough - there was no way of knowing when Jolietateau (?) had reached the end of the map however since he didn't share his view with my side. Maybe it could use a few scorpions on the east side to keep the player on his toes, however.

Really liked the solution with bonus/time limits, and they seemed pretty well balanced.

P.S. I will certainly come back to this to pick apart some great interface WML - options with images, animations etc. Good stuff!

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zookeeper
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Post by zookeeper » September 27th, 2006, 4:47 pm

Rhuvaen wrote:In The Road Back, I was surprised that only an archer could take the fire bow. When I moved Nelayin onto the bow he lost all remaining moves, but couldn't pick it up (whereas archers who pick it up can continue moving). That was mildly irritating.
Did she lose her remaining movement because of trying to pick up the item or just because when you moved her there she revealed fog or something? Anyway, it should be usable by any bow-using unit (as the "can't use" message says). Apparently I just forgot to add Nelayin to the list of possible takers. I'll try to fix this sometime...
Rhuvaen wrote:It took me one attempt to realise that the easiest way to win this scenario is to send a scout directly south across the river, take a village there, and then teleport the mage in. Perhaps those villages near the end of the road are just a little too convenient?
Personally I find the reinforcements a bit annoying, since they steal my XP. :P But yeah, maybe it's the easy way to finish the scenario, but I'm not sure if that's a problem.
Rhuvaen wrote:Journey to the Barrow could use a few level 2 opponents, I think. It was pretty much a cakewalk (I did start with over 200 gold).
I'll think if I can throw a few in. Should be easy enough too: check the two new macros at the bottom of data/utils.cfg in 1.1.10. ;)
Rhuvaen wrote:The Mouldering Barrow actually saw me holed up with a smaller force during the first half of the scenario, just hugging the forest and waiting for the waves of saurians to fall over. It would be nice if the saurian attack was triggered by exploration - in addition to maybe some randomness in where the sorcerer is. It was very hard to get any bonus here at all, but it didn't seem to matter for the following scenarios.
I'm beginning to agree that the saurians are just too numerous and/or too annoying. I should cut their numbers at least a bit (maybe let them have more of some other units, but less skirmishers). I don't think I'll make the objective location be random though, since it'd simply take a lot of work to do so.
Rhuvaen wrote:I had to play The Revelation a couple of times because I was trying to get some xp for Nelayin out of it - which I messed up initially. :wink:
I guess you could kill a revenant there if you get lucky...a fair reward for surviving the attempt, right? :P
Rhuvaen wrote:The escape is fun enough - there was no way of knowing when Jolietateau (?) had reached the end of the map however since he didn't share his view with my side. Maybe it could use a few scorpions on the east side to keep the player on his toes, however.
A few scorpions or saurians (not skirmishers!) in the east could work out well. Not too much (enough to give them a chance, that is), but some. Jolietateau's behaviour should probably be changed so that he firstly shares the view with the player and secondly gives the control to the player earlier (and maybe make him not run at all when under AI control).
Rhuvaen wrote:Really liked the solution with bonus/time limits, and they seemed pretty well balanced.
Thanks. I was trying to find a solution to something that's always bugged me: turn limits in scenarios without any logic. Simply removing the turn limit of course won't do, since then you could leech gold indefinitely, and simple limits on gold carryover (or just having a fixed starting gold in every scenario) wouldn't work either, since then the player wouldn't have any incentive to grab and keep villages. So I came up with the current system, which I thought could work well - nice to hear that someone else thinks so too. :)
Rhuvaen wrote:P.S. I will certainly come back to this to pick apart some great interface WML - options with images, animations etc. Good stuff!
You should have seen the first scenario when I was still getting Rashdin to do his stuff with WML, not with the Python AI he now has. ;) One interesting trick (even if I do say so myself) that could well find more widespread use is the limited number of charges that the wand of banishment has. I also wouldn't mind if more campaigns started using non-combat themes in non-combat scenarios, since IMO it makes much sense.

Thanks for the good feedback. :D

Rhuvaen
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Post by Rhuvaen » September 27th, 2006, 6:32 pm

zookeeper wrote:Did she lose her remaining movement because of trying to pick up the item or just because when you moved her there she revealed fog or something?
She? Oh... :oops: I thought it was a male hero. Anyway, I didn't mean undoing, but all moves were used up (had only used 3 moves to get there). Revealing fog doesn't remove all the move points...
zookeeper wrote:Personally I find the reinforcements [in scen. 2] a bit annoying, since they steal my XP. :P But yeah, maybe it's the easy way to finish the scenario, but I'm not sure if that's a problem.
I just failed miserably those previous times trying without the reinforcements. It's just too hard that way... so many assassins and trolls! Alright, those reinforcements are very luck dependent and maybe mine were extra-lucky!
zookeeper wrote:
Rhuvaen wrote:Journey to the Barrow could use a few level 2 opponents, I think. It was pretty much a cakewalk (I did start with over 200 gold).
I'll think if I can throw a few in. Should be easy enough too: check the two new macros at the bottom of data/utils.cfg in 1.1.10. ;)
Another idea would be to put more hills (or anything less useful to elves) in the center of the map, just not that big patch of forest. That would probably work out better than too many level 2's.
zookeeper wrote:
Rhuvaen wrote:I had to play The Revelation a couple of times because I was trying to get some xp for Nelayin out of it - which I messed up initially. :wink:
I guess you could kill a revenant there if you get lucky...a fair reward for surviving the attempt, right? :P
True. Ilnudil helped a great deal by slowing it first, though :).
zookeeper wrote:You should have seen the first scenario when I was still getting Rashdin to do his stuff with WML, not with the Python AI he now has. ;)
Ah, I forgot about that... he never moved! I had to kill the necromancer myself, even though I freed the village. It was fine xp-wise, but cost me two extra turns and a drop from 50% to 25% bonus.

Maybe the bonus fraction should be finer graded? So that when I miss the limit for 50% by one turn, I don't drop all the way to 25%?
zookeeper wrote:I also wouldn't mind if more campaigns started using non-combat themes in non-combat scenarios, since IMO it makes much sense.
Non-combat themes? What are you referring too?

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