A New Order.

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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Woodruff
Posts: 57
Joined: May 24th, 2012, 12:01 am

Re: A New Order.

Post by Woodruff » September 18th, 2013, 2:28 am

I'm confused...this campaign is supposed to be trivially easy on the "Trivial" setting, but I find
the "Unexpected Guests" scenario to be completely impossible, even on Trivial. I'm a reasonably
experienced player, so I really don't understand what the problem is. My units simply have no
ability at all to stand up to the orcs, and with only 80 gold allowed for the scenario start, I
simply find it unworkable.

Any assistance would be GREATLY appreciated.

szopen
Posts: 616
Joined: March 31st, 2005, 12:51 pm

Re: A New Order.

Post by szopen » September 18th, 2013, 11:56 am

Woodruff wrote:I'm confused...this campaign is supposed to be trivially easy on the "Trivial" setting, but I find
the "Unexpected Guests" scenario to be completely impossible, even on Trivial. I'm a reasonably
experienced player, so I really don't understand what the problem is. My units simply have no
ability at all to stand up to the orcs, and with only 80 gold allowed for the scenario start, I
simply find it unworkable.

Any assistance would be GREATLY appreciated.
Unexpected guests requires from you:
* leveled up units from earlier scenarios (at least Lorin and Reme must be leveled up; by that time, on trivial you should have few 3rd level units)
* sturdy defence in the beginning of the scenario, with units continously shifted to villages to protect them from wounds - not too much advance, basing your line on natural obstacles to the enemy, first facing southern enemy while not forgetting too much about northern.

Maybe I will update money limits on trivial in the next release.
"Even when the Slav is gay the effort is often evident" -- P. R. RADOSAVLJEVICH

Woodruff
Posts: 57
Joined: May 24th, 2012, 12:01 am

Re: A New Order.

Post by Woodruff » September 28th, 2013, 2:53 am

szopen wrote:
Woodruff wrote:I'm confused...this campaign is supposed to be trivially easy on the "Trivial" setting, but I find
the "Unexpected Guests" scenario to be completely impossible, even on Trivial. I'm a reasonably
experienced player, so I really don't understand what the problem is. My units simply have no
ability at all to stand up to the orcs, and with only 80 gold allowed for the scenario start, I
simply find it unworkable.

Any assistance would be GREATLY appreciated.
Unexpected guests requires from you:
* leveled up units from earlier scenarios (at least Lorin and Reme must be leveled up; by that time, on trivial you should have few 3rd level units)
* sturdy defence in the beginning of the scenario, with units continously shifted to villages to protect them from wounds - not too much advance, basing your line on natural obstacles to the enemy, first facing southern enemy while not forgetting too much about northern.

Maybe I will update money limits on trivial in the next release.
Uh...no, because in the "Unexpected Guests" scenario, I cannot recall ANY troops. I can only create new troops. So I do not have any 3rd level units.

szopen
Posts: 616
Joined: March 31st, 2005, 12:51 pm

Re: A New Order.

Post by szopen » September 28th, 2013, 7:06 am

Woodruff wrote:
Uh...no, because in the "Unexpected Guests" scenario, I cannot recall ANY troops. I can only create new troops. So I do not have any 3rd level units.
How's this possible? Have you managed to rescue some of your troops from previous scenario (e.g. moved them to signposts as required)? You may discover a bug. I hate changes in wesnoth engine...
"Even when the Slav is gay the effort is often evident" -- P. R. RADOSAVLJEVICH

Woodruff
Posts: 57
Joined: May 24th, 2012, 12:01 am

Re: A New Order.

Post by Woodruff » September 28th, 2013, 6:53 pm

szopen wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Uh...no, because in the "Unexpected Guests" scenario, I cannot recall ANY troops. I can only create new troops. So I do not have any 3rd level units.
How's this possible? Have you managed to rescue some of your troops from previous scenario (e.g. moved them to signposts as required)? You may discover a bug. I hate changes in wesnoth engine...
Yes, the "queen" and the "bodyguard" (sorry, I don't have their names handy) were able to move to the western signpost and escape, and then the "hero" was able to hold out the requisite timeframe (3 more turns, if I remember correctly).

But I definitely could not pull up any of my older troops...only creating new ones.

szopen
Posts: 616
Joined: March 31st, 2005, 12:51 pm

Re: A New Order.

Post by szopen » September 30th, 2013, 9:57 am

Woodruff wrote:
szopen wrote: How's this possible? Have you managed to rescue some of your troops from previous scenario (e.g. moved them to signposts as required)? You may discover a bug. I hate changes in wesnoth engine...
Yes, the "queen" and the "bodyguard" (sorry, I don't have their names handy) were able to move to the western signpost and escape, and then the "hero" was able to hold out the requisite timeframe (3 more turns, if I remember correctly).

But I definitely could not pull up any of my older troops...only creating new ones.
Could you please post me the savegame from Battle of Barnon, somewhere mid-scenario, so I could check it? This is definetely weird. In the past there was no problem with escaping also with other units (e.g. you move in addition your 3rd level troops to the signpost, in order to have them in the next scenario, as explained in scenario instructions).
"Even when the Slav is gay the effort is often evident" -- P. R. RADOSAVLJEVICH

Woodruff
Posts: 57
Joined: May 24th, 2012, 12:01 am

Re: A New Order.

Post by Woodruff » September 30th, 2013, 5:26 pm

szopen wrote:
Woodruff wrote: Yes, the "queen" and the "bodyguard" (sorry, I don't have their names handy) were able to move to the western signpost and escape, and then the "hero" was able to hold out the requisite timeframe (3 more turns, if I remember correctly).

But I definitely could not pull up any of my older troops...only creating new ones.
Could you please post me the savegame from Battle of Barnon, somewhere mid-scenario, so I could check it? This is definetely weird. In the past there was no problem with escaping also with other units (e.g. you move in addition your 3rd level troops to the signpost, in order to have them in the next scenario, as explained in scenario instructions).
Hold on...you may have just unintentionally explained the problem. In order to carry any of my troops over to the next scenario, they ALSO must escape with the two main characters?

Woodruff
Posts: 57
Joined: May 24th, 2012, 12:01 am

Re: A New Order.

Post by Woodruff » October 6th, 2013, 4:37 am

Ok, that was the problem...I wasn't "escaping" anybody but the two main characters.

However, I am now at the point where I am to pick my twelve best troops. I only have ten "recallable" troops left, so I selected them and then recruited two new ones. But when I click on "end turn", it simply increments the turn number and expects me to take another turn. I did this for several turns, and it never ended the scenario. So I'm not sure what to do at this point.

EDIT: Adding an attachment of my game savefile.
Attachments
Trent.gz
(45.58 KiB) Downloaded 133 times

szopen
Posts: 616
Joined: March 31st, 2005, 12:51 pm

Re: A New Order.

Post by szopen » October 7th, 2013, 12:56 pm

I hate wesnoth engine changes.

I will take a look today after work.
"Even when the Slav is gay the effort is often evident" -- P. R. RADOSAVLJEVICH

Dumukazi
Posts: 2
Joined: October 8th, 2013, 2:11 am

Re: A New Order.

Post by Dumukazi » October 8th, 2013, 2:29 am

I decided to try A New Order the other day and I got to Battle of Barnon. Being stubborn I decided not to follow instruction and instead fight it out. I managed to beat all of the enemies instead of having to suicide (although I did end up suiciding in the end, as killing both enemies crashes the game). A message popped up to have me e-mail my game log somewhere, but I couldn't really understand what the email address was. Is there someone here that wants to see the game save/replay - or that knows the email I'm supposed to send it to? I'll just add the files in the post here. If it needs to go somewhere else let me know.

As far as how I was able to do it: Easy difficulty + lots of starting gold + a good defensive position. I reloaded saves if my higher lvl guys died and focused on training up the mass of lvl 0s I summoned to hold the line, until I saw a chink in the armor and then sent in a group to take out the first leader.


After I beat the level I went back and found I was able to exploit this and trap the second leader for as many turns as I wanted.
Image
Attachments
ANO-Battle_of_Barnon_replay.gz
Replay
(93.9 KiB) Downloaded 142 times
Giveup.gz
Save, right before I give up.
(114.4 KiB) Downloaded 141 times

szopen
Posts: 616
Joined: March 31st, 2005, 12:51 pm

Re: A New Order.

Post by szopen » October 8th, 2013, 8:54 am

Yes, the problem with Battle of Barnon is that making it more difficult generates loads of complaints that "it supposed to be easy campaign!", while making it easier generates loads of comments "it was piece of cake". I was experimenting with different ways to making Battle of Barnon impossible to win, but still, I can't get good enough idea...

From the completely different side: bug discovered byu Woodruf is fixed. In a minute I will upload new version to the server.
"Even when the Slav is gay the effort is often evident" -- P. R. RADOSAVLJEVICH

szopen
Posts: 616
Joined: March 31st, 2005, 12:51 pm

Re: A New Order.

Post by szopen » October 8th, 2013, 8:57 am

Changelog for 1.2.18
* Recruiting 12 units in 16th scenario or ending the turn was not resulting
in finishing the scenario; fixed (Thanks Woodruff for the bugreport!).
Also, the same change in 06
"Even when the Slav is gay the effort is often evident" -- P. R. RADOSAVLJEVICH

Dumukazi
Posts: 2
Joined: October 8th, 2013, 2:11 am

Re: A New Order.

Post by Dumukazi » October 8th, 2013, 1:19 pm

szopen wrote:Yes, the problem with Battle of Barnon is that making it more difficult generates loads of complaints that "it supposed to be easy campaign!", while making it easier generates loads of comments "it was piece of cake". I was experimenting with different ways to making Battle of Barnon impossible to win, but still, I can't get good enough idea...
If I had 100-200 less starting gold it would have been impossible. Of course this might make it too hard to complete for others. Without having the queen or the captain I'd have not been able to exploit it either. IDK if making them be AI and automatically walking them to the exits at the start or at a later point might make it too hard for someone, but it'd definitely have stopped me from effectively holding the line. Another thing would be removing the villages from the northern fortress. Were it not for the income from those few villages I'd not have been able to summon more support for my defenses beyond my starting gold. Losing those villages shouldn't hamper the play of anyone just trying to beat the scenario.

Or you could just keep it as is. TBH beating that battle was the most fun I've had so far in Wesnoth and I don't think it's easy enough for just anyone to be able to do. Maybe just altering the story/win conditions slightly could do it? Instead of losing consciousness and being rescued, the protagonist could have a mysterious stranger lead him to safety? Or even have an unbeatable amount of enemies spawn after the first/second enemy leader dies? Still wouldn't stop the exploit though... Ah well. Anyway, thanks for making this game! I am enjoying it even more than a lot of the main campaigns. Very well done sir.

uddhava
Posts: 6
Joined: March 17th, 2008, 8:24 pm
Location: Amsterdam

Re: A New Order.

Post by uddhava » October 9th, 2013, 4:50 pm

Hi szopen,

I'm playing your campaign and am having lots of fun with it. I came across an error in one of the scenarios. I took a screenshot of it (atached). I could also upload the savefile if you tell me where to find it. Finaly, I noticed there are still some mistakes in the story and dialogue. Mosly small but still noticable. I you want I could go over the text again and get these out, as long as I don''t need to use and weird software for it.

Uddhava
Attachments
A New Order wesnoth error.png

szopen
Posts: 616
Joined: March 31st, 2005, 12:51 pm

Re: A New Order.

Post by szopen » October 10th, 2013, 6:52 am

uddhava wrote:Hi szopen,

I'm playing your campaign and am having lots of fun with it. I came across an error in one of the scenarios. I took a screenshot of it (atached). I could also upload the savefile if you tell me where to find it. Finaly, I noticed there are still some mistakes in the story and dialogue. Mosly small but still noticable. I you want I could go over the text again and get these out, as long as I don''t need to use and weird software for it.

Uddhava
Maybe savefile wouldn't be necessary. Just tell me, which scenario it was; Do you play on windows, mac or linux?

As for the mistakes, the problem is that correcting them will invalidate translated strings :) But still, I would be grateful for corrections. I will post the instructions next week, I have helluve of other work now. No weird software is needed, just any editor (notepad for windows or vi for linux will do).
"Even when the Slav is gay the effort is often evident" -- P. R. RADOSAVLJEVICH

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