A New Order.

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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Jym
Posts: 85
Joined: February 22nd, 2006, 4:15 pm
Location: Paris

Post by Jym »

OK, so I've finished ANO yesterday. I've put my replays on my page. thanks for this great campaign.

Remarks, comments, bugs, ... (in additio to the couple I've already mentionned).

1/ The last scenarion (Orannon) is winnable within 12 turns without even trying really hard at it (I think I only lost a couple valuable units). I originally intended to stay entrenched in the hills while waiting for the ennemy to pour over me and send a small group to kill the outlaw and flank the other, but at the second dawn, there was almost nobody in front of me, so I could push over to the akladian and send small force to help the freetownian cleaning the trolls. Then, at dusk I realised that I had a small chance of ending before turn 12 and went for it (I had read the scenario before).
As a result, Grelulak never showed up which is quite disapointing to win without killing the biig baddy... Moreover, Lorin had no big trouble on the field (with the race to bring her back), so the following plot-scenario was for the least puzzling at the beginning (well not that much because I've read the scenario in advance).
Suggested fixes : either have Grelulak pops up when all his minions are killed or if you wipe out everybody by turn 12 then he realise that he will not make it to join his armies in time and fortify himself in nearby caves. Next (optionnal) scenario: undead (and a few orcs) hunting in caves, but with the help of the freetownian and your cousins. Style point for this, obviously.

Similarly, since I did not interogated any leader in this last scenario, I still don't know who gave the location of Freetown. Having Gawen saying that it is not Lorin in the next plot sequence is surprising...

2/ I think akladian have a balance problem against mages. Of course, they do hate mage for explained reasons, and thus it is quite understandable that they are weak against them, but an level 3 unit with only 40HP is really easily destroyed by level 1 mages, especially since you get so many leadership. Similarly, those scenarios where the ennemy has wondermen are awful because two of them are enough to kill a vital (hero) level 3 unit at full health. And putting yourself in such a way that you cannot be attacked by 2 ennemies is alsmost impossible meaning that you have to take chances...
Suggested fix : get akladian closer to the Grand marshal line. Still big resistance but lower defense and higher HPs. Against regular unit, the lower defense should compensate for the higher HPs (and so you need on average as many attacks to kill them). Against mage, where defense do not count, they should resist a bit more.
I know this might be a feature rather than a bug, but at the end you can really do tremendous amount of kills with a couple mages and then close the gaps with regular troops for the counter attack. Alternatively, maybe forbidding recruiting mages (only the 3 in Weldyn haven't been killed) would also avoid this a bit.
Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.

szopen
Posts: 616
Joined: March 31st, 2005, 12:51 pm

Post by szopen »

Thanks for all the comments. Currently I am in deep sh* until 10th, then I will another deadline, but I _think_ I will have some free time, so If no one wanted to take over the maintaince of "A New Order", I will make changes (including making the version for 1.1) in some unsepcified future.

Including the update of translations.

sigh.

Jym
Posts: 85
Joined: February 22nd, 2006, 4:15 pm
Location: Paris

Post by Jym »

That's great if you'll soon have time to update it !

If a version for 1.1 is out, I'll probably replay everything just to test that things go well...

Good luck with all your deadlines...
Hypocoristiquement,
Jym.

viorc
Posts: 130
Joined: February 22nd, 2006, 3:03 am

making the version for 1.1

Post by viorc »

szopen wrote:I will make changes (including making the version for 1.1) in some unsepcified future.
Hi szopen,
I can help you in converting your campaign into 1.1 version one. I have already run the conversion tool on it and I am currently playing through in 1.3 version. I am fixing problem as they appear (only one with the medic so far - at 4th scenario).

I am also doing something about Team Coloring your Akladian units. Here is a screenshot of the units I have already TC-ed [edit]Removed. See here for TC-ed sprites[/edit]. The lord is stil under work. Only him and the chieftain have been "redesigned". What do you think ? Can it be used ?

So I propose you to take over the job about conversion into 1.1 version.
However I cannot do anything to help you with ante-1.1 version as I do not run it.
Would you make more changes, do them only into the current 1.0.x version. I will port them.
Last edited by viorc on August 17th, 2006, 2:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

szopen
Posts: 616
Joined: March 31st, 2005, 12:51 pm

Re: making the version for 1.1

Post by szopen »

viorc wrote: I am also doing something about Team Coloring your Akladian units. Here is a screenshot of the units I have already TC-ed. The lord is stil under work. Only him and the chieftain have been "redesigned". What do you think ? Can it be used ?
Sure, why not.
So I propose you to take over the job about conversion into 1.1 version.
However I cannot do anything to help you with ante-1.1 version as I do not run it.
Would you make more changes, do them only into the current 1.0.x version. I will port them.
That would be great! If not, the ANO for 1.1 would appear only in September at earliest :)

viorc
Posts: 130
Joined: February 22nd, 2006, 3:03 am

different types of Akladian Warriors

Post by viorc »

Seleukus wrote: Also, I find it strange that you apparently have three different types of Akladian Warriors (each with a separate but exactly same description.) Two of them are capable of 'advancing' into the Akladian Leader (also level 1), while one is capable of advancing into the Akladian Chieftain.
A look at the cfg files confirms this. The player warriors may advance to Akladian Light Infantry or Akladian Leader while the opponents' Akladian Warrior(_c and _g) may advance to Akladian Light Infantry or Akladian Chieftain.
Is this difference in the unit tree intended ?

I feel like turning them all (after TC) to :
id=Akladian Warrior
advanceto=Akladian Light Infantry,Akladian Leader
No problem with that ?

szopen
Posts: 616
Joined: March 31st, 2005, 12:51 pm

Re: different types of Akladian Warriors

Post by szopen »

viorc wrote:
Seleukus wrote: Also, I find it strange that you apparently have three different types of Akladian Warriors (each with a separate but exactly same description.) Two of them are capable of 'advancing' into the Akladian Leader (also level 1), while one is capable of advancing into the Akladian Chieftain.
A look at the cfg files confirms this. The player warriors may advance to Akladian Light Infantry or Akladian Leader while the opponents' Akladian Warrior(_c and _g) may advance to Akladian Light Infantry or Akladian Chieftain.
Is this difference in the unit tree intended ?
No, it's not intended. The only reason with three kind of units was to visually differentiate between the opponents. I decided it will be better to have three colour version of the units (because of the lack of team colors in 1.0) when you have opponents with the same set of units as you.
I feel like turning them all (after TC) to :
id=Akladian Warrior
advanceto=Akladian Light Infantry,Akladian Leader
No problem with that ?
Yes.

viorc
Posts: 130
Joined: February 22nd, 2006, 3:03 am

Re: different types of Akladian Warriors

Post by viorc »

szopen wrote:
I feel like turning them all (after TC) to :
id=Akladian Warrior
advanceto=Akladian Light Infantry,Akladian Leader
No problem with that ?
Yes.
Good.

Another suggestion for you szopen.
I took a look at the wiseman tree sprites and I feel something is wrong with it. It seems to me that the Wiseman is much more impressive and threathening than the holyman. I think it would be better to move it to a higher level.

I would use the current sprite of the holyman for the wiseman (adding a sort of bag to put medecine herbs - also helping TC-ing :wink:).
I would modify the current wonderman and turn it into holyman. Its improved staff, shows the greater skills compared to the new wiseman. I would put a small cape (to be improved on the sprite) to show its evolution towards wonderman.
I would use the current wiseman sprite for the wonderman. He seems older and its long cape could be used to hide the potions needed to prepare its ranged attack.

What do you think ?

[edit] Screenshot deleted [/edit]
Last edited by viorc on August 23rd, 2006, 7:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

szopen
Posts: 616
Joined: March 31st, 2005, 12:51 pm

Post by szopen »

Hm.. Wouldn't new holyman be _smaller_ then, than the wiseman?

viorc
Posts: 130
Joined: February 22nd, 2006, 3:03 am

Post by viorc »

szopen wrote:Hm.. Wouldn't new holyman be _smaller_ then, than the wiseman?
I assume you compare wonderman (level 3) to holyman (level 2).
Well for the unit itself (not taking the shaft into account), the holyman would be 40 pixels (32 from the foot to the eye) while the wonderman would be 38 pixels (31 from the foot to the eye). The difference is not that big and partly due to a change in 'hairstyle'.
Moreover, the need of the wiseman tree to grow with level is IMHO not so strong as their melee attack is staying constant throughout the line (2-3). They get more powerful by getting more skills (cure and magic). This shows that these guys are mostly growing wiser (and probably older) not so much stronger. IMHO the wonderman would look after the change wiser and older than the holyman.
But anyway it is your work so I will keep it as you want.
:oops:

szopen
Posts: 616
Joined: March 31st, 2005, 12:51 pm

Post by szopen »

well, i like the level 1 and level 2 changes.
But for me level 3rd does not look now as advance now - maybe partially due to the shaft, I don't know...

viorc
Posts: 130
Joined: February 22nd, 2006, 3:03 am

Post by viorc »

szopen wrote:well, i like the level 1 and level 2 changes.
It is good you like them :)
szopen wrote:But for me level 3rd does not look now as advance now - maybe partially due to the shaft, I don't know...
Understood. I should say the shaft of the wiseman is quite mysterious to me so I feel reluctant to change it. I keep the same sprites for these units.
The wiseman line is (level 1 not TCed yet):
  • Level 1:
    Image
    Level 2:
    Image
    Level 3:
    Image

viorc
Posts: 130
Joined: February 22nd, 2006, 3:03 am

Finished campaign in 1.1.x

Post by viorc »

I have played the campaign to the end in version 1.1.x (and fix the small problems I met)
It was not so easy as there are some many new elements in some scenarii that may require you to start them from the begining. Particularly, I was stucked in "Trapped", no way to survive until I realize that it would be much easier if I had freed Reme :?. So I was back 10 scenarii early finding Bontom :wink:

Unfortunately I am still making no progress in TCing-the-clan-member-animation / animating-the-TCed-clan-member.
Making one frame is huge work.
Making three frames is 3 times as huge.
Making three frames that look like an animation when put together is 10 times as huge !

Whenever it is done, I will be able to upload the campaign on the server.
Just to keep you informed.

PS: Should I integrate new version of third party units as part of the conversion to process (I am talking about L3 outlaws, Aragwaithi) ? I think it can be done later, but what do you think ?

szopen
Posts: 616
Joined: March 31st, 2005, 12:51 pm

Re: Finished campaign in 1.1.x

Post by szopen »

[quote="viorc"
PS: Should I integrate new version of third party units as part of the conversion to process (I am talking about L3 outlaws, Aragwaithi) ? I think it can be done later, but what do you think ?[/quote]

I am not the author of Aragwaithi and L3 outlaws. Please contact their respective authors, mainly to avoid repeating the work which may be already done by someone else.

User avatar
Ranger M
Art Contributor
Posts: 1965
Joined: December 8th, 2005, 9:13 pm
Location: England

Re: Finished campaign in 1.1.x

Post by Ranger M »

szopen wrote:[quote="viorc"
PS: Should I integrate new version of third party units as part of the conversion to process (I am talking about L3 outlaws, Aragwaithi) ? I think it can be done later, but what do you think ?
I am not the author of Aragwaithi and L3 outlaws. Please contact their respective authors, mainly to avoid repeating the work which may be already done by someone else.[/quote]

I will be TCing the L3 outlaws at some point, once all of the other outlaws have been TC'ed, but not yet.

As for the aragwaithi, they won't be TC'ed as far as I know, because their artist has left, and they are just left as an extreamly cool faction.

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