A New Order.

Discussion and development of scenarios and campaigns for the game.

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viorc
Posts: 130
Joined: February 22nd, 2006, 3:03 am

Re: Finished campaign in 1.1.x

Post by viorc » September 4th, 2006, 1:00 am

Ranger M wrote:
szopen wrote: I am not the author of Aragwaithi and L3 outlaws. Please contact their respective authors, mainly to avoid repeating the work which may be already done by someone else.
I will be TCing the L3 outlaws at some point, once all of the other outlaws have been TC'ed, but not yet.
Good. I am looking forward to see the TC L3 outlaws you will do :)
I was not planning to TC these units that's for sure. I was more speaking about unit stats (basically copying all .cfg and png files to the campaign).
For example, the Aragwaith Archer is costing 15 gold in the campaign and 14 gold in the latest Imperial Era version. I know there is also a new version of the L3 outlaw pack even if I ignore what are the changes for.
I will keep my original idea and leave that for later.
Ranger M wrote:As for the aragwaithi, they won't be TC'ed as far as I know, because their artist has left, and they are just left as an extreamly cool faction.
That is for sure :D
Just a little too difficult to keep alive for me :cry:

szopen
Posts: 616
Joined: March 31st, 2005, 12:51 pm

Re: Finished campaign in 1.1.x

Post by szopen » September 4th, 2006, 7:18 am

viorc wrote: For example, the Aragwaith Archer is costing 15 gold in the campaign and 14 gold in the latest Imperial Era version. I know there is also a new version of the L3 outlaw pack even if I ignore what are the changes for.
Go ahead. You have my blessing.

On the other hand, I hope this won't destroy the carefully balanced scenarios :D

viorc
Posts: 130
Joined: February 22nd, 2006, 3:03 am

ANO 1.1.x is ready to publish

Post by viorc » September 7th, 2006, 8:38 am

I have post the last frame to be TCed for the akladian faction in this thread. Have a look and give me your feedback. If it is at your liking I will publish the campaign on the server.
I still need some time to clean-up the pictures (removing old ones and working versions) but I hope it could be finished for the week-end.
@szopen: if you like what I have done, can you pm the PBL file so that I can publish the new version ?
szopen wrote:On the other hand, I hope this won't destroy the carefully balanced scenarios :D
Well I hope it is not too bad and I hope Jym will keep his words and test it in version 1.1.x as soon as it is published :wink:

PS: last frame means: last frame of units that were having _c or _g copy in the 1.0.x version. The job of TCing is far from completed.

szopen
Posts: 616
Joined: March 31st, 2005, 12:51 pm

Post by szopen » September 7th, 2006, 5:10 pm

viorc, contact me with at my address I gave you in pm. If you didn't get the pm, write it.

viorc
Posts: 130
Joined: February 22nd, 2006, 3:03 am

A New Order for BFW 1.2 uploaded

Post by viorc » September 11th, 2006, 6:11 am

I finally have uploaded the version of ANO for BFW 1.1.x. I named it 0.8.0.
It can be found on the campaign server (at drazzib.com).

New Aragwaithi stats :!:, new L3 Outlaw pack :!:, new Akladian TCed sprites :!:, new translations :!: ... new bugs ;) ...
Only good reasons to download this new version quickly and give it a shot.

With szopen's blessing

PS: no update for BFW 1.0.2 :P

viorc
Posts: 130
Joined: February 22nd, 2006, 3:03 am

Complete Faction List updated with Aklad and Aragw

Post by viorc » September 13th, 2006, 6:01 am

For those who are unfamiliar with the Akladians and Aragwaithi units, I have update the Complete Faction List for these two factions [Aklad], [Aragw].
I took as much unit sprites as I could from the server but some are still missing for Akladians when none is present for Aragwaithi (which does not improve the readibility, I much say)
Anyway, if it is of any help for this campaign to anyone ...

kilder
Translator
Posts: 71
Joined: January 18th, 2004, 3:47 pm
Location: somewhere in spain

Post by kilder » September 13th, 2006, 5:59 pm

hi! when i saw the work on this campaign was reinitiated, i decided to replay it and, by the way, update the catalan translation. Til now i've just played until the Scouting scenario, but here a few bugs/comments:

->The map "Conversation" is displayed incorrectly. Now is just a mess.
-> Nowadays the orcs recruit too many archers for my taste. It doesn't feel "right" in my eyes. Besides, although they can give quite a punch to your units with their fire arrows, they fall waaay too quickly after. I think that makes the scenarii easier.
->Akladian lords/Gawen's unit et alii don't give leadership. The mistake, i think, it's in the outdated leadership tag. If i'm not terribly mistaken, it should be {ABILITY_LEADERSHIP_LEVEL_1/2/3}. I've changed it manually in the .cfgs and it works this way.
-> Sometimes the graphic of a unit disappears (usually a speaking one). I mean, i can see them in the minimap, i can select them, but their image isn't. Usually, reloading that map solves this problem.


Great job! I wanted to play this campaign in dev branch, and i was afraid it wouldn't be updated and thus lost for 1.2. Thanks :)


pd: i hope you won't change lots of strings... that would give me more work ;)

viorc
Posts: 130
Joined: February 22nd, 2006, 3:03 am

Post by viorc » September 14th, 2006, 1:11 am

kilder wrote:hi! when i saw the work on this campaign was reinitiated, i decided to replay it and, by the way, update the catalan translation. Til now i've just played until the Scouting scenario, but here a few bugs/comments:
Thanks for playing it again and providing your feedback. I never played it in version 1.0.2 so it is good to have some feedback on how it is different from before.
kilder wrote: ->The map "Conversation" is displayed incorrectly. Now is just a mess.
I thought it was a little messy too but just assumed it was designed like that. I will check how to improve it.
kilder wrote: -> Nowadays the orcs recruit too many archers for my taste. It doesn't feel "right" in my eyes. Besides, although they can give quite a punch to your units with their fire arrows, they fall waaay too quickly after. I think that makes the scenarii easier.
Probably due to AI change. Maybe it can be changed by providing some more parameters [recruit_pattern ?] to the AI. I will check that. Which scenario you said it was ? Any scenario with orcs ?
kilder wrote: ->Akladian lords/Gawen's unit et alii don't give leadership. The mistake, i think, it's in the outdated leadership tag. If i'm not terribly mistaken, it should be {ABILITY_LEADERSHIP_LEVEL_1/2/3}. I've changed it manually in the .cfgs and it works this way.
Thanks for your serious debugging, I will upload the changes [edit]Version 0.8.2 uploaded[/edit].
kilder wrote: -> Sometimes the graphic of a unit disappears (usually a speaking one). I mean, i can see them in the minimap, i can select them, but their image isn't. Usually, reloading that map solves this problem.
I encounter that problem too (isn't it in the beginning of a scenario with automatically recalled units ? If so, after selecting them and making them move they appear again :?). I am wondering if it is not a bug in the program.
Sometimes you may see in the beginning of a scenario that some akladian units are suddenly not team colored :( I will try to investigate and file a bug report if confirmed.
kilder wrote:Great job! I wanted to play this campaign in dev branch, and i was afraid it wouldn't be updated and thus lost for 1.2. Thanks :)


pd: i hope you won't change lots of strings... that would give me more work ;)
Only one string :) (about the price of Aragwaithi in scenario "Hired Swords")
The work of you guys translators is too precious :D

kilder
Translator
Posts: 71
Joined: January 18th, 2004, 3:47 pm
Location: somewhere in spain

Post by kilder » September 14th, 2006, 5:55 pm

i'm here again ;)

Just a little note to say that today i was able to play til the end of the campaign and i didn't suffer any problem with the game. It ran flawlessly. Excellent!! :D

I thought it was a little messy too but just assumed it was designed like that. I will check how to improve it.
If i recall correctly, originally was the ancient terrain for paved road instead of all those ice villages. maybe it could serve again?
Probably due to AI change. Maybe it can be changed by providing some more parameters [recruit_pattern ?] to the AI. I will check that. Which scenario you said it was ? Any scenario with orcs ?
i think it's because the "poor" resistances akladians have vs fire (compared to all the other kinds of damage). It was at the scenariuum unexpected hills. However, today i've noticed that, when the ai has better "core" troops (such as orcish warriors, etc) it doesn't recruit so many archers. Maybe then the ratio cost:damage isn't as useful

By the same rule, ai controled akladians recruit lots of wondermen ( in one scenario (abducted bride) one leader recruited 4 wondermen out 6 troops :shock:) and use them offensively with their holy damage. Nevertheless, if my memory is right, this problem was far worse in 1.0.2.

See you! Back to work!


EDIT: ooops, i forgot one bug. In that scenarium of abducted bride, i killed the second leader with lorin, however, it was an _elvish archer_ i had who interrogated him. The strangest thing was that, while the leader's answers didn't appear, any comments Lorin would have made (as the killer) DID appear. Very strange!

viorc
Posts: 130
Joined: February 22nd, 2006, 3:03 am

Post by viorc » September 15th, 2006, 12:55 am

kilder wrote:i'm here again ;)

Just a little note to say that today i was able to play til the end of the campaign and i didn't suffer any problem with the game. It ran flawlessly. Excellent!! :D
Good ! Thanks for coming back for feedback. It is really helpful.
kilder wrote:

I thought it was a little messy too but just assumed it was designed like that. I will check how to improve it.
If i recall correctly, originally was the ancient terrain for paved road instead of all those ice villages. maybe it could serve again?
I made that change and upload version 0.8.3.
About translation, I forgot to say that I did not commit the change into Wescamp. So you probably will have nothing to change in your translations until I do it (if it was up to date in 1.0.2). I am currently wondering if I send this file to Wescamp, the translation for BFW 1.0.2 will be broken :( I feel like waiting until the official release of the next stable version before commiting :?.
kilder wrote:
Probably due to AI change. Maybe it can be changed by providing some more parameters [recruit_pattern ?] to the AI. I will check that. Which scenario you said it was ? Any scenario with orcs ?
i think it's because the "poor" resistances akladians have vs fire (compared to all the other kinds of damage). It was at the scenariuum unexpected hills. However, today i've noticed that, when the ai has better "core" troops (such as orcish warriors, etc) it doesn't recruit so many archers. Maybe then the ratio cost:damage isn't as useful

By the same rule, ai controled akladians recruit lots of wondermen ( in one scenario (abducted bride) one leader recruited 4 wondermen out 6 troops :shock:) and use them offensively with their holy damage. Nevertheless, if my memory is right, this problem was far worse in 1.0.2.
It is probably "Unexpected Guests". I never played it. I guess it is when you go north in "Barnom" ? I will give it a try.
For the orcs, generally speaking, I was thinking that I could try to make him have more extensive use of Assassin. It would give more incentive to the player to use holyman line (the first time I played I got two, dropped one in separation and never used the other one. The second time, I recruit none)
About the recruitment of wonderman, I tend to think it is not a bad strategy from the AI, if the player does not rush to kill them, he will probably lose some advanced unit. It leaves some time for the AI to hit hard with its warriors and give a nice change in the tactics compared to the beginning of the campaign.
kilder wrote:See you! Back to work!


EDIT: ooops, i forgot one bug. In that scenarium of abducted bride, i killed the second leader with lorin, however, it was an _elvish archer_ i had who interrogated him. The strangest thing was that, while the leader's answers didn't appear, any comments Lorin would have made (as the killer) DID appear. Very strange!
I will check WML code. Do you have a savegame ? (even beginning of the scenario). It would take me years to bring an elvish archer to that scenario :wink:

kilder
Translator
Posts: 71
Joined: January 18th, 2004, 3:47 pm
Location: somewhere in spain

Post by kilder » September 16th, 2006, 11:44 am

I have the save of the beginning of the scenario. Just I can't remember if I recalled the sharpshooter I have or Elorain. It could be Elorain :oops: Maybe that matters.


Ah, by the way, I was able to beat Orannon in 11 turns in normal, because the leaders made crazy sorties out of their castles and left them quite vulnerable. For example, the bandit's leader went into water to attack with his sling one akladian warrior I had in grassland, and he obviously fell quite fast. The first akladian leader (not Bor Cryne, the other one) also did something similar. The orc and bor Cryne didn't make any strange move, but with two enemies less, the battle is more than easier. Maybe a tweaking of the ai agression level could solve it?

And, if that happens, the scenario ends, without Grekulak appearing. A bit anti-climatic, isn't it? Maybe it could be solved with a message form Deorien saying like "Excellent! Now with this great advantatge we have, we should attain a strong defensive position until Grekulak and his horrors arrive". And by turn 13, make Grekulak and co. appear and send their wave of destruction.

:?: By the way, could the turn of arrival be more or less random? Like +/- 2 ? I don't know if it would be useful, or even interesting but... nobody said those scouts know exactly the speed of the undead ;) It could be adjusted depending on the difficuulty level: easy -1/+3, normal +/- 2, hard +1/-3 (and we wish you luck if grekulak arrives 3 turns before :twisted: ). Maybe it's more a coding hassle than an improvement, so scrap it.


See you!

_______________________________

Here's the save (MacOSX 10.3.9, BfW 1.1.9, ANO 0.8.1 (sorry, I have dial-up connection :( No time to be up to date ) It's a .gz because of the forum limitations, but it has not been neither compressed nor changed. If there's any problem, I can send it in an e-mail.)
Attachments
Abducted_Bride.gz
(286.3 KiB) Downloaded 155 times

viorc
Posts: 130
Joined: February 22nd, 2006, 3:03 am

Post by viorc » September 18th, 2006, 4:16 am

kilder wrote:I have the save of the beginning of the scenario. Just I can't remember if I recalled the sharpshooter I have or Elorain. It could be Elorain :oops: Maybe that matters.
Thanks a lot kilder. In fact, it did not matter. Your savegame helped me identifying the problem and test the fix. Now a new version 0.8.4 is on the server (too bad your connection prevent you from using these well deserved bug fixes). There are also some more fixes for scenario "Trapped".
kilder wrote:Ah, by the way, I was able to beat Orannon in 11 turns in normal, because the leaders made crazy sorties out of their castles and left them quite vulnerable. For example, the bandit's leader went into water to attack with his sling one akladian warrior I had in grassland, and he obviously fell quite fast. The first akladian leader (not Bor Cryne, the other one) also did something similar. The orc and bor Cryne didn't make any strange move, but with two enemies less, the battle is more than easier. Maybe a tweaking of the ai agression level could solve it?
It seems a lot of effort has already spent on tuning the AI up and down (a lot of WML code written to do it), still it seems deficient in some scenario. It probably shows that it is no easy task. If I have to start my own tweaking, I would probably first try on an easier scenario to see how it works :? (like fighting for a pass where AI's behavior is not so smooth)
kilder wrote: And, if that happens, the scenario ends, without Grekulak appearing. A bit anti-climatic, isn't it? Maybe it could be solved with a message form Deorien saying like "Excellent! Now with this great advantatge we have, we should attain a strong defensive position until Grekulak and his horrors arrive". And by turn 13, make Grekulak and co. appear and send their wave of destruction.
It seems it is quite easy to reach this situation. I encountered it myself and had to spare the last leader's life for one turn to make sure I can see Grekulak. The problem is probably that before Grekulak arrives, the win criteria is to kill all leaders. When the last one is dead, I am not sure we can still do anything before the games end by a victory (like changing victory criteria - but it can be worth trying).
kilder wrote: :?: By the way, could the turn of arrival be more or less random? Like +/- 2 ? I don't know if it would be useful, or even interesting but... nobody said those scouts know exactly the speed of the undead ;) It could be adjusted depending on the difficuulty level: easy -1/+3, normal +/- 2, hard +1/-3 (and we wish you luck if grekulak arrives 3 turns before :twisted: ). Maybe it's more a coding hassle than an improvement, so scrap it.

See you!
It would be indeed an interesting thing to try (not difficult with WML I think). But stabilizing the AI behavior is probably more urgent at the moment.

KRCM
Posts: 23
Joined: June 27th, 2006, 10:43 pm
Location: Belgium

Post by KRCM » September 19th, 2006, 9:55 pm

Hello,

I think I have found a bug in the scenario Scouting near Barnon.

There are akladians warriors, clanmembers & wisemen in the recruitment list. (Together with peasants and fencers) This is not really corresponding the story ...

(Or i have misunderstood something earlier on, I am not native english speaking)
Maintainer Elf War

viorc
Posts: 130
Joined: February 22nd, 2006, 3:03 am

Post by viorc » September 20th, 2006, 1:34 am

KRCM wrote:Hello,
I think I have found a bug in the scenario Scouting near Barnon.
There are akladians warriors, clanmembers & wisemen in the recruitment list. (Together with peasants and fencers) This is not really corresponding the story ...
Have you killed both leaders in "Hired Swords" ? If yes, then it is a bug.
I will start troubleshooting.
Can you confirm you did ? Thanks for your help.

[edit]Problem confirmed and fix in version 0.8.6 available on the server.
In the same version, I also fix this problem (at two different places at least):
kilder wrote: -> Sometimes the graphic of a unit disappears (usually a speaking one). I mean, i can see them in the minimap, i can select them, but their image isn't. Usually, reloading that map solves this problem.

[/edit]

torangan
Retired Developer
Posts: 1365
Joined: March 27th, 2004, 12:25 am
Location: Germany

Post by torangan » September 20th, 2006, 10:38 am

Don't forget to commit your changes to WesCamp soon, there are many translations in work for this campaign...
WesCamp-i18n - Translations for User Campaigns:
http://www.wesnoth.org/wiki/WesCamp

Translators for all languages required: contact me. No geek skills required!

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