Making "Isle of the Damned" worthwhile

[fmunoz]

Maybe I should add a messgae from one of the mermen about the ship arriving soon.

[kmj]

Maybe I should add a messgae from one of the mermen about the ship arriving soon.

I think something along those lines is a good idea. even if it's at the very beginnig, or, turn 2.. "If we can just hold out until the ship arrives!" or something. Perhaps it's the gamer's (aka my) fault for not paying close enough attention to the objectives, but at least you'll get less complaints about it.

I do agree that thugs would be a big help against the skeletons in the next scenario (about half the cost of the only useful unit against them in your arsenal -- mages).. whether this benefit is enough to balance the leveling & gold from muff malaal, I don't know.

[Eponymous-Archon]

The main problem is that it is harder to beat the sea orc than the land orc, and yet you get a worse reward for beating the sea orc (assuming you do not beat both). this seems hardly fair.

In 0.6.1 I would have agreed, whenthe mermen couldn't moved during the same turn they were freed. (at least, I thought they couldn't). I've played the version in 0.6.99.4 and both times I've killed the sea orc first, with enough time for my merman to help kill the land orc.

Having the mermen move right away makes this a much easier scenario, though still pretty hard on medium, I find. I nearly always beat the sea-orc first...though I find myself switching to the land now. Problem is that if you don't defeat the sea-orc, you lose the nice trident-wielding merman. Those bats are hard to kill too, so you need a lot of mermen to stick together, or some scouts to draw the bats off by entering the water.

The slow start out of the castle and the limitation of 2 recruits/turn are also big factors. Even 1 more castle hex would make a big difference, I think.

The land-orc is severely hampered by the terrain and even lvl-1 horsemen can be very effective against him. Problem is, it takes a while to get down there if you make it your first goal.

[quartex]

You're confusing me. Are you still talking about "Isle of the Damned"? Becuase it sounds a lot like you are referring to the previous level. Do we have 2 maps being discussed in the same topic?

[Eponymous-Archon]

You're confusing me. Are you still talking about "Isle of the Damned"? Becuase it sounds a lot like you are referring to the previous level. Do we have 2 maps being discussed in the same topic?

Oops, looks like we did slip into the other level. Sorry.

[blackjack]

So, as it currently stands, if you go to Isle of the Damned,

1. You will not gain the ability to recruit thugs/poachers/ (footpads?) in later levels, but have to recall them (for 20!) gold.
2. You miss out on Moremirmu, and the chance to level up some troops.

Here are some suggestions:

1. To allow you to recruit thugs/poachers in later levels if you defeat at least one enemy leader.
2. To allow you to recall the mermen from the bay of pearls. The storm trident could make a big difference. This is plausible because you might be separated from your ship, yet still have contact with the mermen.
3. To place a vial of holy water on the map.

Any one of those would make this level worth it, in my opinion. (1) would confer a lasting advantage, while (2) and (3) would make it easier and you would be able to level up some thugs.

Last thing: I completed 0.6.99.3/4 in hard difficulty, but I haven't played Isle of the Damned in hard. I suspect that it'll be essentially impossible to kill both enemy leaders.

Even Valley of Death, it's possible to kill all three leaders (in medium). So perhaps it's not impossible, but that I haven't found the key yet.

[fmunoz]

You are given a free 2nd level very good unit (Outlaw) being Chaotic could hepl you vs humans...
Maybe I should add another magic item in the isle, just something to help, like a healing potion near one of the liches to allow a faster defeat (healing your guys faster so you could make more attacks).
You miss Moremiru but you can recruit some good vs undead units, they really help in the .
The scenario paths dont need to be balanced as in life some choices have unespected consequences.. the idea is to have fun with the game.
Maybe I'll add a free unit of each type at the end of the scenario as a bonus if you defeat at least one of the undead bosses.

[blackjack]

Agree that the scenario paths don't need to be balanced. Also Bob the level 2 outlaw is useful. But I find it very hard to kill the 1st lich - basically most of my troops die from his ranged attack. Perhaps I need to recruit more poachers.

My current tactic is to recruit some mermen to go south and hold up the undead from the south while I deal with the northern lich. It takes too much time though - can't go south meaningfulluy.

But having heard your explanation, I can understand why you have implemented Isle of the Damned this way.

[Dave]

Perhaps on turn 3 or so a merman should come from off-map and join you, bringing the message "Sir, I have told the crew of the ship of our location, and it is coming to rescue you. If we hold off for a few days, we should be able to get you off this island!"

We should probably make a special reward for killing both enemy leaders -- anyone who achieves that feat should get something for their efforts.

David

[KK_r]

Perhaps on turn 3 or so a merman should come from off-map and join you, bringing the message "Sir, I have told the crew of the ship of our location, and it is coming to rescue you. If we hold off for a few days, we should be able to get you off this island!"

We should probably make a special reward for killing both enemy leaders -- anyone who achieves that feat should get something for their efforts.

David

It's very very hard to kill both leaders, I barely killed one, don't think many would be able to get the reward. Sure reward shouldn't be easy to get but this doesn't make the isle a more popular place when it will be so hard to get the reward.

[Dave]

It's very very hard to kill both leaders, I barely killed one, don't think many would be able to get the reward. Sure reward shouldn't be easy to get but this doesn't make the isle a more popular place when it will be so hard to get the reward.

Isle of the Damned should be worthwhile even if you don't kill both enemy leaders, but there should be a special reward if you do manage this feat. That's what I think, anyhow

David

[bosmens]

I didn't like the Isle of the damned, I forgot to save the ending of Pearls and ended up bankrupt (100 of earned 350 ) in the Siege of Elensefar, so I couldn't buy most of my level 2 units. It wasnt much of a challenge either, just buy those thugs and keep pressing that end turn button.
Perhaps there should be some money earning opportunity.

[jmosher]

I didn't like the Isle of the damned, I forgot to save the ending of Pearls and ended up bankrupt (100 of earned 350 ) in the Siege of Elensefar, so I couldn't buy most of my level 2 units. It wasnt much of a challenge either, just buy those thugs and keep pressing that end turn button.
Perhaps there should be some money earning opportunity.

I have kept trying this scenario with each revision, and today finally beat both leaders on the very last turn. With one better roll I could have finished on turn 23. Still, this is a very unsatisfying scenario.

As Bosmens described, I came out of winning the scenario with just 190 gold, inadequate for the Siege of Elensefar. As everyone has agreed, there needs to be a *major* bonus for beating both leaders (500 gold or something more creative. But even if you only survive, you should not lose all the gold you collected before the scenario, right?

Also, just being able to recall the outlaws later seems rather limited, compared with being able to recruit thieves after Elensefar.

Not a scenario issue, but the Footpad has too many limitations: high xp, low hp, and low damage. Since I think the very nice Outlaw is the upgrade from Footpad, the xp should not change, but the hp should be boosted 2-4 points and melee and ranged damage improved to 4-2. The Poacher seems a bit slow and should have 6 movement points. The Thug seems fine.