Home of the North Elves reviewed [BUG]

[Feldegast]

Funny scenario. But something should be done to protect the Orc and Human Leader much more. I moved one Gryphon to the north, a quick one to the south, occupied the village near the leaders and teleported Great Mages there to finish them off with ease.

Suggested fix to make that harder:

(1) Move the villages farther away from the leader/castle.

(2) Add an elder Gryphon to the story which withdraws your veteran Gryphon units and make Konrad unable to recruit new Gryphons in this scenario. Mother Gryphon or a Gryphon Messenger could come and tell about trouble in the lands where the Gryphons come from. Your veteran Gryphons leave to help just like Delfador has disappeared in some scenarios.

(3) Construct a guarded army camp around the leaders.

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The many Elves around Konrad can be overwhelming at times, and Konrad can barely move. Especially near the forest, where a normal speed Konrad can move only three hex far. Only trick to work around that is to escort Konrad with some units in a distance of 2-3 hex. Then you can move them farther away and let Konrad close the gap.

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Attached is a save game and a replay. The replay doesn't load. It says corrupted and then starts like normal. The save game is the previous turn. Just use the Great Mage at the south to kill the Human Leader and be done with the game, then save the replay to reproduce any problems.

[Dave]

Thanks for the feedback. I think we'll make some changes to solve problems with this scenario:

- make a guard around enemy leaders
- make it so that the Elves don't want to surround Konrad quite so much.

David

[jmosher]

I found the map simply too large. Konrad can easily make it to the Forest without any trouble from the Humans. Once he's there, they won't have a prayer against him and his Elvish allies. The Orcs logically enough pay more attention to the General's forces since that is their stated aim; so you don't have worry much about them. There just wasn't much drama involved.

I suggest making the map smaller or shifting the General's camp further north so that they have a chance of engaging Konrad before he reaches the forest.

I also suggest adding fog of war. Eonihar warns you about the General and the Orcs, but you can only see enemies as they come in sight of your forces. This would add considerable tension, since you wouldn't know when the General would fall on your southern flank.

[Lord Apolon]

I just finished the scenario and, in all honesty, it was the dullest of them all. The orcs harassed me a bit but gave no real trouble and I reached the forest long before the humans arrived. Then, after spending a good 5 turns wading through the forest, I simply didn't feel like wading out again, so basically spent the last ten turns watching everyone else fight. (Admittedly, I'm playing on Easy, which I will shortly rectify, if that's in the text files)

I think that Fog of War would be a *very* nice addition to this map. Not only will it cut down the (extremely long) enemy turns (and yes, I have fast movement on), it will also add more suspense, add some need for actually scouting, and lend more drama to the scenario.

I didn't use gryphons and attacked neither leader, so I don't know about that, but at the end, the orc leader had about 25 villages, the human 40, and the elves 50. If the elves were in any actual danger, the scenario might be better.

Also, there are two keeps in the Elven castle. I presumed one was for Konrad, but if I put him on it I get the 'your leader must be on a keep to recruit/recall units' message. ... odd.

[Christophe33]

I also found this scenario very dull. You can probably do it without fighting a single time if you want to. I had units 2 hex from the orcs troup and they just walk past by... I had to run after them to have a fight because I was bored. Hadding fog of war would definitively help. Making the map more narrow (but still long) would concentrate the action. Also removing any of the village near Konrad starting points. I guess I ended with more than 80 villages...
I think there should be two alternate starting point depending on the choice you made in the previous scenario. If you made the north choice you will be on the north of the river...maybe coming out an area with mountain and toundra around. If you made the south choice, you will be south of the river, coming out of swamps and will have to cross the river again as it is mentioned during the discussion in the "choice to be made" scenario. If the river was made with deep water in most area except a few ford, it will make the game far more intense and enjoyable from a strategic point of view.
The elf are definitively way too powerfull. They should start with less gold and have less village closeby.

[jmosher]

The elf are definitively way too powerfull. They should start with less gold and have less village closeby.

Or maybe no allied team at all, at the beginning. I mean, if there is an Elvish castle at all, it should be far more powerful than the Orcs and Humans, since this is "The Home of the North Elves." But this removes much of the challenge. If on the other hand the North Elves have to take time to arrive on the scene (their castle is a day or two away -- otherwise why tolerate nearby Orcs in the first place?) and don't have a base of their own, this would change the dynamics. Firstly, the player would be wondering when help would arrive. Secondly, while the appearance of a large rescue party would be a major boost, it wouldn't be so ridiculously powerful as to remove all chance for defeat.

[Dave]

This scenario has been changed quite a bit in 0.6.99.2. It'd be great if people could try it again in the new version and submit feedback.

I mean, if there is an Elvish castle at all, it should be far more powerful than the Orcs and Humans, since this is "The Home of the North Elves." But this removes much of the challenge.

The Elvish castle is one of the border cities of the Elves. It is not the most powerful Elvish outpost, but enough to send out a substantial force. We may make it even less powerful in future if it is still too powerful.

David

[Feldegast]

0.6.99.2 reviewed. Became even easier, far too easy at "easy" difficulty.

Since I didn't know what changes to this scenario would wait for me, I recalled all of my experienced units (that included 5 Champions, 3 Avengers, 1 Marshall, 1 Paladin, 3 Shyde, 2 Great Mages, 1 Mage of Light, 1 Arch Mage), no dwarfs and mermen, but also a 2nd level thief and a few 1st level elves (which I hoped I could engage in a few fights).

Similar strategy (if one can call that strategy) as before:

Outrider and Gryphon went north-east to capture villages towards the Orc leader. The two Great Mages (and an Arch Mage) teleported there and killed the mostly unprotected Orc leader easily. I had expected that this would not be easily possible and as soon as I would come near the orc camp, the leader would summon some reinforcements which block the way.

My 3rd level fighers and healers went north of the forest near the snow field at the middle of the map without opposition. The few Goblin Knights, Trolls and weaker units I encountered around turn 15 were no match at all.

Most of the time I spent moving my small army towards the east, split into 2-3 groups. I didn't encounter many human units. A few Dragoons and Swordsmen, one Ogre. That was all.

I ended with 111 occupied villages and 1886 gold, only a few turns away from the human leader. Didn't start soon enough to move south to find out why I didn't see many humans. It seems he and his units battled the elves just north-east of his castle and didn't get very far to the north.

[Dave]

Hmm...still so easy? :-/

I have made some AI improvements in CVS which will hopefully make it harder to make 'decapitation attacks' against enemy leaders. We'll see how it works out.

Perhaps the Elves should also get less gold....

David

[illusionmi]

While I agree that it is easy, I was expecting a really hard level after it. I was able to amass a ton of gold and level up the last of my units. But if you want to make it harder you could add a 3rd enemy commander