WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

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weewah
Posts: 57
Joined: October 31st, 2019, 7:11 pm

Re: WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Post by weewah »

weewah wrote: November 2nd, 2020, 4:28 pm 100 gold is okay though, considering the enemies are also a lot weaker than I was thinking (just two leaders with 175 starting gold each).
Uh. I was very very wrong about this.

Oh so so wrong.

I thought it would be fine with my level 3 general there for 20 gold, but no no it wasn't.

I think I needed to bring 5 heavy hitters with me rather than 1 general and spamming level 0s.

But in my defense, I did not realize you could not bring your loyal units with you until it was too late.

(It is also possible that I am not good at vanilla wesnoth. Or at least, not so good that I can overcome a 100 gold vs 350 gold difference :oops: )
vghetto
Posts: 311
Joined: November 2nd, 2019, 5:12 pm

Re: WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Post by vghetto »

There was another problem with the role assignment, so I'm about to do another update later on today.

I'll increase the initial gold given to you for the fief. How do these values look to you? reasonable or too much?
Easy: 150 = 2 * 75
Normal: 188 = 1.5 * 125
Hard: 219 = 1.25 * 175

Edit: getting the balance right is always difficult. I tried fief with the increased gold and it felt a bit too easy. Playing on normal, I went with a very strong recall list. To offset this, the next version will allow the enemy to auto-advance one or two of their recruited units to level 2. The chance for auto-advancing of any recruited unit is 10% on normal and 20% on hard. Auto-advancing does not happen on the first year or on easy.
weewah
Posts: 57
Joined: October 31st, 2019, 7:11 pm

Re: WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Post by weewah »

Well here''s the 1.9.5 replay on wesnoth 1.5.6.
WF-A New Beginning replay 20201102-000900.gz
(193.54 KiB) Downloaded 48 times
WF-Summer of Dreams replay 20201102-053728.gz
(254.4 KiB) Downloaded 49 times
WF-Autumn of Gold replay 20201103-122521.gz
(280.27 KiB) Downloaded 49 times
I got my ass kicked on the fief, so that is not shown lol. :oops:

Not really sure what approach to try next.

I kinda want to play other factions, but the diplomacy thing is too hard since 10 completions are needed.

Edit: Some suggestions:
  • Termites starting bonus is kind of weak, it only clears a small area around the center. Also, if you don't want your caravan to run straight into one of the powerful signpost enemies, you would try to build your city off-center anyway. (If you look at my replays, you can see I usually try to build a road to the edge that does not lead to the signpost. Though sometimes I fail because there's mountains in the way and I ain't fighting any dwarves.)

    How about making it so Termites remove 1/2 or 1/3 of all trees on the map? Then it would be a pretty good starting bonus, because even though it doesn't really help you get started, you have much fewer trees to clear away later on as you expand your city.
  • Right now, it takes 10 diplomacy missions to be able to recruit a faction's units. That is so long I can't see it being done before Year 2 autumn, after the calamity already arrived! How about buffing it such that, whenever a diplomacy mission is completed, one random unit from that faction is added to the recruit list for the rest of the season?
  • Book of Fungi also seems kind of weak. (Though maybe that's just because I tend to forget mushrooms exist.) How about making it so that if Book of Fungi is chosen, Peasant workers gain the ability to convert flat terrain (or hills instead?) into mushroom groves for 10 gold and 2 work turns. Then at the start of each turn, any side 1 unit standing on mushroom grove terrain heals for half the amount it would if it ate a mushroom.
vghetto
Posts: 311
Joined: November 2nd, 2019, 5:12 pm

Re: WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Post by vghetto »

weewah wrote: November 5th, 2020, 11:51 pm I kinda want to play other factions, but the diplomacy thing is too hard since 10 completions are needed.

Edit: Some suggestions:
Hey thanks, those were some good ideas.

In the replay, animal potion attracts the ogres, that's why they were following you around. Other issues were already addressed in the later versions. The replays looked really good to me as they were!

Keep the replays coming, they are fantastic to watch!

git branch replay e1c000d

I don't know if I want to change the 5-10 diplomacy thing. Some of them are complementary or the inverse of another, so they can be done fairly quickly if you suspend and switch often. I think i'll flip around recruit and faction bonus. Make it that you can recruit on completing 5 but gain the starting bonus on completing 10.

In the next version, termites will clear a straight path from the center to the signs, everything removed on this path gets replaced by mushrooms. Mountains in the central area are also cleared :)

The fungi book is very powerful as is. it will cure your unit from poison and restore moves and attacks. That means you can attack, eat, attack again!
I added a new peasant worker option for creating mushroom groves. They will be regular mushrooms like the rest on the map. ofcourse you need to start with the fungi book bonus or complete 5 outlaws missions to get it. The cost and turns is the same as paving roads.

Another minor change. Taking the book of finance bonus will allow you to go into negative gold without defeat.

Edit: Adding more of the new animals for testing. They look nice. wesnoth 1.15.* only
Giant Ant, Giant Stoat, Icemonax, Fire Ant, Great Icemonax, Swamp Lizard

@OTna. Hi! I sent you a PM a while back if you're still around.
weewah
Posts: 57
Joined: October 31st, 2019, 7:11 pm

Re: WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Post by weewah »

So I dug into the code to see what the diplomacy missions are... and it seems some of them only want leader units? Like the dwarves want 10 levels worth of elven leaders, so that is 5 elven waves that must be summoned and killed to complete the mission?

Also elves want 5 dwarven leaders?? I have only one thing to say to that: No thanks, I prefer to live.

On another note: why doesn't orc/undead diplomacy let you recruit goblin spearmen/walking corpses? Those are great level 0 units, much better than their level 1 versions since they have no upkeep.
vghetto
Posts: 311
Joined: November 2nd, 2019, 5:12 pm

Re: WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Post by vghetto »

weewah wrote: November 7th, 2020, 10:52 pm So I dug into the code to see what the diplomacy missions are... and it seems some of them only want leader units? Like the dwarves want 10 levels worth of elven leaders, so that is 5 elven waves that must be summoned and killed to complete the mission?

Also elves want 5 dwarven leaders?? I have only one thing to say to that: No thanks, I prefer to live.
Hi! Thank you for checking out the code, which reminds me, I need to comment it better. Most of the comments that you might have read are by esci from CotF.

I think you misread the code, it's my fault, the code isn't clear on what the variables are.

There are no quests asking for 10 elves/dwarves leaders. You just need 1. There is a quest in the elves diplomacy asking for 5 outlaw leaders (side 3 or 4). Those can be attained in a single winter.

Ironically, that was the part of the code I was messing with for the upcoming version earlier today.
WF 1.10.0 asks for 1 dwarvish leader, but it has to be a side 6 leader. In the upcoming 1.10.1 I'm expanding it to allow a dwarvish leaders from side 4, the outlaws. Thus you can complete the mission without having to spawn those damn dwarves anyway :)
Same for the elves.

A bit about the variables, dwarves_mission is the current quest number. It's there to keep track of the selected mission.
diplomacy.required is the number of kills wanted. For most cases, it's usually 10, like 10 trees, but for the rogue dwarves/elves, it is just the 1.
I think for the undead quests, diplomacy.required is 5
loyalists farms is also 5
There might be other exceptions, but I can't remember right now.
btw, diplomacy.required drops to 3 after completing 5 missions.

final note about diplomacy.required, it doesn't do body counts, it does level counts. so killing a level 0 unit will count as 1, killing a level 3 will count as 3 towards the total.
weewah wrote: November 7th, 2020, 10:52 pm On another note: why doesn't orc/undead diplomacy let you recruit goblin spearmen/walking corpses? Those are great level 0 units, much better than their level 1 versions since they have no upkeep.
Yeah, I don't know. I felt some might complain about that saying it makes the game too easy. What the hell, i'll add them in the next upload.
weewah
Posts: 57
Joined: October 31st, 2019, 7:11 pm

Re: WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Post by weewah »

Remember those replays where bunnys murdered my woodsmen?

Well here is me losing the whole game, because of one bunny:
image_2020-11-07_182426.png
X_X.

My caravan was two turns away from the edge. Everything would have been perfectly fine, if not for that bunny taking one of my villages. Now I have no gold and negative income and will lose the next turn.

I am just going to go cry now. :(

Edit: I found a way to survive. It involved pathetically clinging to life while sending out all my troops to die so that I can live.

Here's the replay:
WF-A New Beginning replay 20201107-180218.gz
(207.79 KiB) Downloaded 47 times
WF-Summer of Dreams replay 20201107-233508.gz
(271.15 KiB) Downloaded 45 times
WF-Autumn of Gold replay 20201108-135702.gz
(278.25 KiB) Downloaded 46 times
WF-Fief Uprising replay 20201108-142027.gz
(67.46 KiB) Downloaded 44 times
WF-Winter of Storms Turn 11d.gz
(413.73 KiB) Downloaded 43 times
I basically went full dwarves and wrecked all the enemies, because DWARVES HAVE THE BEST UNITS IN THE WORLD!! :lol:

Then a horde of ghosts spawned in winter and wrecked me, because ghosts hard-counter dwarves. I was not ready for that X_x.
...I might have to get elves, because elves can fight ghosts in winter better than anyone else.
vghetto
Posts: 311
Joined: November 2nd, 2019, 5:12 pm

Re: WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Post by vghetto »

I just uploaded 1.10.5.
WF now has a sub-scenario for every season:
Spring has abandoned mine.
Autumn/Summer has fief trouble at one of the signposts
Winter gets internal uprising. You'll have to stand down your leader to start it!
There is no penalty in not doing the sub-scenario.

The Tents are not a sub-scenarios, you don't need to wait till the last turn to access them.

I'm using the scenario gathering material from Sceptre of Fire as a basis for the cave and indoor keep maps, if someone has a better alternative cave map to use, please let me know.

Notable change is also the enemy keeps for the orcs, undead and saurian calamity. The keep orientation is different depending on which edge of the map that the orcs and undead spawn at. They are still 3+keep, weewah suggested in the past having them 4+keep. I'm not sure if I want to do that, but I'm open for suggestions. any thoughts on that.


Edit: Next upload will drastically change how the main map is generated.
At some point, I thought it was a good idea to reduce the lake sizes. But I noticed that those were very helpful in defending hoards when they come from a certain side. So i'm bringing back lake and river generation.
The new map will also have random roads mapped out and some enemy proof keeps around the map edges.
Those are keeps only without a castle, you could build a castle next to it and start recruiting from them.
Your main keep is still important, build one and protect it. Its destruction will end in defeat.
The new update will also allow building bridges on swamps.
Version 1.10.6 is now on the servers
weewah
Posts: 57
Joined: October 31st, 2019, 7:11 pm

Re: WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Post by weewah »

Do mushrooms ever disappear? I have been testing book of fungi, and when I realized each grove only costs 2 gold I started flooding the map with them before wondering if the gold might be wasted.

I'm guessing mushrooms next to water tiles get drowned when spring arrives, but is there anything else I should watch out for?
vghetto
Posts: 311
Joined: November 2nd, 2019, 5:12 pm

Re: WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Post by vghetto »

weewah wrote: December 6th, 2020, 8:16 am Do mushrooms ever disappear? I have been testing book of fungi, and when I realized each grove only costs 2 gold I started flooding the map with them before wondering if the gold might be wasted.

I'm guessing mushrooms next to water tiles get drowned when spring arrives, but is there anything else I should watch out for?
Yes, in the beginning of spring, all old mushrooms die off. For the rest of the season, nothing will happen to them.
fiestaman
Posts: 3
Joined: February 18th, 2019, 1:41 am

Re: WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Post by fiestaman »

I seem to be having an issue where farms produce 0 gpt. Anyone else notice this?
vghetto
Posts: 311
Joined: November 2nd, 2019, 5:12 pm

Re: WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Post by vghetto »

fiestaman wrote: December 9th, 2020, 8:02 am I seem to be having an issue where farms produce 0 gpt. Anyone else notice this?
Hi,
Thank you for trying WF. Which version of wesnoth are you using and what is the difficulty?
On the hard difficulty, farms don't produce gold until you get the caravan to the edge of the map. Likewise in the winter for all difficulties.
fiestaman
Posts: 3
Joined: February 18th, 2019, 1:41 am

Re: WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Post by fiestaman »

Apologies for the noob question, I must have missed that condition. I'm indeed playing on hard. I'm playing on your latest update.

By the way, what is the difficulty curve supposed to look like? I've noticed that the initial spring was significantly easier than that of Cities of the Frontier, but perhaps that's an intended mechanic to get the player started and it scales up in difficulty over time?

By the way, I should add that Cities of the Frontier was far and away my favorite campaign for wesnoth, and all I can do is thank you for keeping its spirit alive! Seriously, I appreciate the work!
vghetto
Posts: 311
Joined: November 2nd, 2019, 5:12 pm

Re: WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Post by vghetto »

Thank you so much for your kind words.

It all started with me trying to fix bugs in CotF. While doing that, I found that it was a very enjoyable mod, but too difficult for someone like me.
CotF starts getting harder in the first winter, which is the worst time ever to crank things up!

So, I forked it and went crazy with it after that :)

The normal difficulty is modeled after my playing skills, or lack of.
I rely on input from players like weewah and OTna for the hard difficulty.
The easy difficulty gets the least attention, unfortunately.
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Jonlissla
Posts: 5
Joined: December 23rd, 2020, 7:09 pm

Re: WF - Wild Frontiers [SP Campaign]

Post by Jonlissla »

I registered a account just to tell you how much I love this campaign. It's seriously fun, especially the start when you are exploring and expanding your town, and the dialogue is written in a good lighthearted way. The different gifts you can pick at the start are great, it makes each game unique in its own way. It gets a bit messy lategame when you have a very large force that needs managing but aside from that every playthrough has been a blast for me.

That said, I have a few questions and suggestions;
  • Is there a list that shows what each gift does? Reading this thread also showed me they give passive racial bonuses, which you normally get by completing 10 assignments of a faciton. Speaking of bonuses, would be fun if players could see what they were.
  • The quests and associated dialogue are great, can't complain about that, but they can get a bit "grindy" towards lategame especially when you're juggling like seven factions to please.
  • I presume the answer is 'no' to this question, but is there a way to implement adjacency bonuses to buildings like city building games? Like, say, you build a granary right next to a farm, that would improve the farm's yield by one gold or something.
  • After building a windmill I get two incoming caravans, sometimes from the same direction. If they arrive at the building at the same turn they overwrite eachother's item. Are two caravans intentional? Gets a bit hectic to give the item to the right dude.
  • Each time I complete a quest I get the option to hire mercenaries for 100 gold. This is nice and all but it doesn't let me continue without hiring them. It's a great price but there is a time and place for getting a dozen new units.
  • I love the city building aspect of the campaign but I always get a bit sad once you've built everything and the only thing left to do is to build paths (for winter), forts (for defense), or farms (for income). Are there any plans to allow you to upgrade buildings like you can do with the keep?
  • Finally, I would like to know what triggers the elves and dorfs to attack. I know it's by cutting down trees and levelling mountains and hills, but how much can I safely remove before being attacked?
Once again I will say that I really, really like this campaign. It's a different pace. A sort of slow-burn survival with a bit of city building, and a dash of terraforming while you're at it. I hope everyone stays safe, and have a happy holiday!

Edit: I would also like to know what the differences between Easy/Normal/Hard is. Does it affect spawnrate, calamities etc.
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